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The Logi Code. Guide to Logi Success. Updated

Author
Immortal Guides
#1 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:10  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
THE LOGI CODE, Five R's - Updated
Many good points, suggestions, and relevant topics to Logis here. Visit The Triage Ward for more help.

- Rezz----------Pick up your teammates
- Repair--------Rep their armor
- Resupply----Ammo, grenades, keeps the game moving
- Reinforce----Backup your team, eradicate the red dots
- Rally----------Create backup spawns or spot targets

SP is a precious commodity. You must live with the consequences of your actions in the EVE universe every skill should be researched before making a choice (or buy a respec). The Logi skill set requires a long term commitment to be a real LogiBro.

The Role of Support
The Logi is the only character that can carry more than two pieces of equipment and will have a race dependent bonus for that equipment, that is the draw of the class. A Logi is expected to carry certain items: a nanite injector, a repair tool, and a nanohive are the most basic.
Chankk Saotome wrote:
"There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit (KDR) then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not 'LogiBro' material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys."


In addition to the basic equipment, and as your team needs require, you will have other equipment open to you like: drop uplinks, active scanners, and more - covered later in the guide.

A LOGIBRO. Where to begin?
Tactics Change
First, understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character, you are not to be playing alone. While you should be able to hold your own, your role is not as a lone wolf slayer. You are a jack of all trades and the master support. While you will learn to make your play style work for you, I have found that these insights help:

A Logi is an easy target
You are squishy, yellow, and no side arm*. There is no backup, you are the backup.
You'll survive better when with a group and benefit your group by being able to repair them, resupply their ammo, or even rezz them right back onto the battlefield.
Overall Know your weapon preference. Then stay with your team.

Having said all that you should also know that because Dust514 is a game of diversity you can stack modules of many types to enhance your strengths, neutralize your weaknesses, or create unique dropsuits that are only effective only in a specific situation.

STAGE 1: Choosing your Race
STAGE 2: Choose your Weapon
STAGE 2A: How to choose your weapon
STAGE 3: Your First Skills
STAGE 3A: Your First 5 Million
STAGE 4: Advancing the Logistics Class
STAGE 5: The Proto Logi
STAGE 6: Equipment, Final words, and Advice
STAGE 6A: Basic Tactics
STAGE 6B: Loyalty Store



The Bonuses of Being a Logi
The individual CLASS bonus of wearing a certain kind of logistics suit will be a 5% reduction to equipment CPU/PG usage, up to lvl 5 for a total of 25%. On top of that there are the Race specific Equipment bonuses:

- Amarr: -10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level.
- Caldari: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.

Note: The bonuses do not stack. Maxing one race bonus does not transfer the class bonus to another dropsuit, class, or race of another. Example: A Max Minmatar Logi will in no way affect the repair rate of a lvl 1 Amarr Logistics dropsuit.


STAGE 1: CHOOSING YOUR RACE
Logistics Suit Choices
The Racial Bonus and overall assessment of each class
The race you choose will have the Logi class bonus, an equipment bonus, and different inherent bonuses in the capabilities of each race’s dropsuit. Generally ranked Minmatar, Gallente, Amarr, then Caldari in Logibro usefulness.

Each drop suit has fitting options in the form of High Slots, Low Slots, Light Weapon Slot, Grenade Slot, and Equipment Slots. As each naturally has a light weapon and grenade slot the differences will be listed as:
High Slots/Low Slots/Equipment Slots.

Amarr (Blessed Hybrid). +10% reduction to Drop Uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level (max: 50% & +10). 7/10
The Amarr Logistics Dropsuit is a front line rally/assault-logi, but is prized in matches for its unique bonus with drop uplinks (glitched - lasts only until you switch suits or bleed out). It has bonuses to its primary stats in bandwidth, armor, and stamina but takes a hit in comparative speed, equipment slots, and PG. The higher initial HP, stamina, side arm, and higher CPU are a benefit and make it a talented suit for many operations. It has midgrade shields, longer shield delays, and lower PG. A unique character choice for a logi, a difficult dropsuit to master. The bonus is best for creating rally points and moving objectives - just stay alive.

90 Shields/210 Armor
Shield Recharge: 15hp/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 6sec
Shield Depleted Recharge Delay: 8sec
Armor Repair: 2.5hp/s
Move/Sprint: 4.85/6.37 mps
Stamina: 225
Stamina R: 18
Hack Speed: +15%
Bandwidth: 20/24/36

Standard---3H/5L/3E + Side Arm 195CPU/ 36PG
Advanced--3H/5L/3E + Side Arm 273CPU/ 50PG
Proto--------3H/5L/3E + Side Arm 390CPU/ 72PG
Skills: Go for Uplinks and Armor

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Immortal Guides
#2 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:19  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
Caldari (Nano Resevoir). +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level (50% & 25%). 6/10
This build is a unique choice for solo and team players. Shield tanks well and offers the fastest regeneration of HP in the logi class. This suit is decent for jumping in and out of battle. It has low armor but is very customizable with its 5 high slots but even that can feel limiting with the 3 Lows. This Logi capitalizes on a unique bonus, perfect for just running nanohives (glitched like the Amarr Uplinks- lasts only until you switch suits or bleed out). It is an easy class to step into but MUCH less CPU than like suits; though it has the most High Slots for damage mods, shields, rechargers, etc. It lacks in stamina and rates the lowest for Logibro logis.

180 Shields/90 Armor
SR: 25hp/s
SR Delay: 4sec
SDR Delay: 5sec
Armor Repair: 2hp/s
Move/Sprint: 5.05/6.58 mps
Stamina: 150
Stamina Recharge: 15
Hack Speed: +15%
BW: 20/28/36

S- 5H/3L/4E 175CPU/ 39PG
A- 5H/3L/4E 245CPU/ 55PG
P- 5H/3L/4E 390CPU/ 78PG

Skill Suggestions:
Dropsuit Shield Upgrades:+5% dropsuit shield per level
Shield Extension: +2% shield module
Shield Recharging: +3% recharge module
Shield Regulation: +2% regulator module
Nanite Technology


Gallente (Third Eye Tortoise). +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level (50% & 25%). 8/10
The polar opposite of the Caldari. It has the most Low slots, fewer high slots, but balanced to give a great many Logi possibilities and great for module stacking specific builds like hacking, sensor boosts, sprinting, ect. A solid choice for a Logi. The scanning bonuses mean that every squad will want at least one scanner logi, and hopefully a skilled logi at that. It also has a high Low slot count that pushes the suits ability for max brick tanking and has decent shield recharging, stamina, and a 5hp passive armor rep. A suit for the ultimate regen survivor.

90 Shields/180 Armor
SR: 15hp/s
SR Delay: 6sec
SDR Delay: 8sec
Armor Repair: 5hp/s
Move/Sprint: 5.05/6.58 mps
Stamina: 150
Stamina R: 15
Hack Speed: +15%
BW: 16/24/32

S- 3H/5L/4E 195CPU/ 39PG
A- 3H/5L/4E 273CPU/ 55PG
P- 3H/5L/4E 390CPU/ 78PG

Skill Suggestions:
Armor Repair Systems: +5% repair module
Armor Plating: +2% armor module
Dropsuit Armor Upgrades: +5% dropsuit armor per level
Active Scanners


Minmatar (Patch Thrall). +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level (50% & 25%). 9/10
This is the Original Logi. It has had a few changes since the beta and subsequent builds; but it is still rock solid. Though slightly altered every Logi is compared to this one, the original logi with 12 slots. The racial bonus to the repair tool gives a boost to distance that is far enough to keep out of fire while repping at a rate well above your fellow logis. Though this logi is the weakest in HP it is also the fastest and still retains a minor hacking bonus. Low shields, ok armor, (lowest initial HP) and faster movement speed allows him to stay with the roving packs a little better than the other Logis. A versatile, well balanced build as well with 4H/ 4L/ 4E. A good all around choice for a Logi of any skill level: point and rep.

90 Shields/150 Armor
SR: 20hp/s
SR Delay: 5sec
SDRDelay: 6sec
Armor Repair: 2.5hp/s
Move/Sprint: 5.25/7 mps
Stamina: 180
Stamina R: 23
Hack Speed: +20%
BW: 16/24/32

S- 4H/4L/4E 195CPU/ 39PG
A- 4H/4L/4E 273CPU/ 55PG
P- 4H/4L/4E 390CPU/ 78PG

Skill Suggestions:
Dropsuit Armor Upgrades: +5% dropsuit armor per level
Armor Repair Systems: +5% repair module
Hacking: +5% per level to hacking speed
Repair Tool Operation


STAGE 2: WEAPON CHOICES
Find the Weapon and type of grenade that you are most effective with.
Your Gank Factor

NOTE: Your Logi has ONE* weapon slot- make it count. You will need to put some skills into upgrading it. We now have militia variants of all weapons. Try them before committing to one or investing in a wide variety. A proper Logi simply can't spare the extra 100-300k just to mess around with alternative weaponry to find our proper niche due to the high demand of skill dumps into Dropsuit, Module, and primarily Equipment skill branches. So make your choice a good one by following the instructions in STAGE 2a: How to Choose Your Weapon.

Your gun is a backup fire-support element, and not meant to be slaughtering the masses. You lay down some support and remain conservative so as to stick with your team. It still needs to be something you're comfortable with, so that in a pinch you can still handle your own with a flanking enemy or finish of an enemy to then rezz your compatriots -often a bullet can be better than a rep tool - unless it is a core focused!

The best weapons for a Logi are medium ranged weapons, rifles. The AR, CR, RR, SCAR, or a MD and grenades THOUGH there are exceptions and Logis that have made the others work for them.

AR - the Assault Rifle is a standard piece of equipment on the battlefield that works better on shields than armor. It is simple to use and requires only moderate skill. The GEK or Exile/Dren/Toxin (BPO from Merc Packs) AR is alright for a Logi, at advanced levels the TAC, Breach, and Burst AR rifle variants open up.
+ OK in medium to short range battle
+ versatile weapon with variants
+ moderately easy to fit
- out distanced/RoF/damaged by all other rifles.
- you may be getting closer to enemies than you want, but that is your job if you are a Logi, stay with the team.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Immortal Guides
#3 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:26  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
STAGE 2: Weapon Choice cont.

CR- the Combat Rifle has a high rate of fire that eats armor and can be a burst or full auto weapon (ACR), firing several rounds with each trigger pull. Great for finishing off a wounded opponent. (ADV tier has assault variant)
+good distance
+rapid ROF
+auto-variant available.
+low fitting cost
+scope has a slight zoom
+ eats armor
-burst fire can be awkward

RR- the Rail Rifle has a small charge up time before going full auto. It hits hard, but most importantly it outdistances all other weapons in the rifle class but hip dispersion and kick causes problems. It is not a rifle for all ranges.
+ great distance
+accurate at mid-long ranges
+rapid ROF - top tier
+low fitting cost
- 0.6 charge time - not for twitch reactions or CQC
- Low total ammo
- Kicks like a mule

SCAR – the Scrambler Rifle is a hard hitting semi-automatic laser rifle (shield damaging). It can be charged up to deal an intense amount of damage (3x). An Advanced version is fully automatic without the ability to charge up. It is extremely effective against shields and pretty accurate.
+ erases shields
+ charges up for a power shot (x3 damage)
+ red dot scope
+ decent at med-short
- not as effective against armor (-20%)
- overheats quickly and seizes the weapon,
- overheating can kill you
- Fitting cost is extreme

MD - Mass Driver. The Doctor of area denial, damaging the masses and finishing off the wounded. Difficult to master and to start out with. A direct shot is powerful, but most of the time you will be aiming at the feet of your opponents to be specific in damaging certain areas or enemies.
+ possibly damage many people at once.
+ proto is high damage
- low initial damage (ADV and proto level pwn), not good for 1v1 short range
- small blast radius
- friendly fire - 'on' in some matches
- a change from shooting straight to lobbing shots
- Sentinels have damage reduction

LR - Laser Rifle - NO in general. A raw beam of energy erases shields and causes panic in groups of shielding players. The LR has a tiny optimal range the size of 1-2 tank lengths. Outside of it there will be little damage done.
+ damage at optimal range can be huge
- low damage starting out, must warm it up and then fry the enemy, AND at short range YOU WILL DIE. It is less than worthless at short range. Very difficult to use when your class requires you to be close to rezz and rep your team.
- overheating can kill you
- short fire time before overheat
- ammo hog
- high fitting cost

Shotty - Generally No. Shotgun, hard for a marked logi to use, but deadly at short range and the best alternative in close quarters if you do not use the MD.
+ close range god gun. Finish off opponent when running to rez in a close quarters battle
- range makes it worthless in open areas.
- you have to get your squishy self close before it will even matter.
- "If for some psychotic reason you decided the shotgun was the logi weapon for you, you haven't spent enough time practicing." - CS. This is for an alternative CQC builds only.

SMG - Still only in CQC viable, but it’s a bear at eating armored enemies up close. It is relegated to a sidearm for a reason, but should you have a build or two just for fun I wouldn’t say no. The higher tiers can hold their own.
+ effective against armor
+ fast reload speed
+ large ammo clips
- Rifle class beats it every time.
- MagSec distance can get there faster.

MAG Sec- It is the Caldari variant of the SMG. A Caldari rail SMG to be exact. It trades a short spool up time for slightly longer range. A decent weapon, but getting used to the charge time in CQC battles is difficult.
+ effective against armor
+ rapid fire
- spool up time
- kicks like its big brother

Flaylock Pistol - Generally no.
Sniper - NO- as you are not doing your job.
Plasma Cannon - NO- but it can be fun to play with. OHK single fire, arcing rocket launcher.
Scrambler Pistol- No. CQC high damage limited weapon. SCR has the needed distance.
Side arms, etc. - No

Find one to focus on. Combinations are possible with the Amarr logi, (LZR, SMG).

Grenades: This is used as your secondary weapon* or an equipment clearing tool. The militia BPO/C nades, you cut you short by 1 (2 nades as opposed to the 3 of basic gear). The basics are cheap and well worth the buy.

Flux= shield burners and equipment destroyers, great for group support, but will not finish off opponents. You can either lead with these and finish off a player with a weapon that deletes armor. Or use them to wipe an area of gear (recommended).

Locus= standard nade. Higher tiers offer wider explosions and higher damage.Cook them for OHK endings to short battles. Cooking means holding the grenade for a time before you throw it - or hold it and suicide. With the right timing this becomes a very effective weapon.

AV= Anti Vehicle nades, throw just above the vehicle - timing can be difficult - and they don't work on anything else. They are hard hitting when you get to the higher levels. As a Logi you will most likely not skill into Swarm Launchers until much later in the game as it takes your whole 1 weapon slot*. These will be your tools of destruction for LAV’s and Tanks when they get close to your cover.

Last Defense
Melee: If someone gets too close – it is difficult to use, don't depend on it. And as a Logi your slower movement doesn’t lend itself to melee or nova knives… but hey if you want to roll that way go ahead – I don’t suggest it but it could be a fun build to pull out at times with some Myofib modules for jumping-face-punching fun too.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Immortal Guides
#4 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:34  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
STAGE 2A: How to Choose your Weapon by Chankk Saotome edited by RedBleach
You can now test each weapon with a basic militia issue version. All testing can be done on your Main Character to keep the WP/SP you are earning from your battles on your main - everything helps.

Now we build the simulation.
Select the starter Medic fit. Load it up with a couple militia armor plates to slow it down and no other modules. Then use your one weapon on it and a militia repair tool, no hives, no injectors. The purpose of this is to keep you in the mindset of a LogiBro from start to finish even during this little side excursion. Now you're a super-scrub logi. Go die like you're supposed to... a LOT, with each weapon.

Yes, you're wasting time but this is a good practice before skilling into anything in DUST if you don't want to waste days, or weeks, or even months of SP on unnecessary skill branches. Remember that your Main’s SP is precious – Do Not Waste It

Get a feel for the weapons. Their general alterations as you progress in levels aren't that different from the militia or starting tier so if you can't handle it now you won't be able to later either. You may also enter into some Faction Warfare to buy certain weapons that have a reduced skill level for use. Very helpful wen you want to try the Assault Combat Rifle and such.

-or-
Make an Alt of another race (alternate character – remember your PS login ID can have 3 total. Your main, and two alts).

With your Alt log in and do the following:
Use that ALT's starter fits to test the rifles and use what you are earning from battles, to buy straight into the few weapon skills that you want to try and nothing else. You're just using this character to test weapon types and then they're going bye-bye:

Weaponry III
Light Weapon Ops IV
and any weapon you would like to try... and go die alot.
-


Found a weapon you like? A SINGLE weapon you will rarely if ever deviate from. And if you will it will only be for militia grade? No, seriously, you can't be wasting points. In STAGE 3a CS will go for the most costly weapon to jump start with the MD in the LogiBro continuation but you may shave some points off not upgrading weaponry beyond minimal requirements for the SCAR or AR.

If for some psychotic reason you decided the shotgun or LR was the logi weapon for you, you haven't spent enough time practicing. Go out and do it again.


STAGE 3: Basic Skills
Skill Suggestions by priority (opinion), "defense is the best offense"
Keeping yourself Alive, you can't help anyone if you're dead. As a Logi your life is paramount as if you are dead there is not hope for your companions to be brought back from the brink of death, loosing their gear and hurting the clone count of the team.

Beginning this game you will have an immediate option to skill into a Logistics class, this Specialization Role, if you would like. Your first skills will be those that put you right on the path of being a Logibro. So, try all the suits and weapons first to give you a feel for the game before you commit to one Race path, for once on that path you cannot turn around (SP comment at the top). As a general rule you spend the minimum SP possible for the skills that open up the paths for your needed skills. For example: You would not take Dropsuit Command to lvl 5 as there are no bonuses past the 1st level. There are several of these.

Note: Certain skills have greater benefits for different suits. An Amarr suit benefits from both Dropsuit Shield and Armor skills but a Caldari suit will benefit little from an inherent armor skill and greatly from the shields skills (comparing the bonuses gained from invested skill points). So, invest appropriately for your tanking style.

Your first purchases are going towards HP (Tank Factor) and your Medium Race suit type. Your militia equipment is fine for a while and will suffice for repping, rezzing, and resupply for the moment but will be getting better soon. Will you go Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, or Minmatar? Each suit type has it’s own bonuses in regards to slot layout that are featured in STAGE 1.


STAGE 3a: Your First 5 Million
See The posts in this thread by Chankk Saotome for the full post. A step by step process for building your Logi skill path for every 500,000 skill points.

CS “did skill levels for every 500k SP up through the first 5 mil here. If you haven't got it figured out by that point then we're all really in trouble. Me especially for failing to educate.” - CS

This is a very general flow of the whole Logi progression and can be tweaked according to your race’s bonuses (armor or shields), but it is the best to maximize your total SP cost-to-benefit investment early.
RB Note: Drop Uplinks are favored by many Logibro’s but still an optional skill. Maybe you prefer Active Scanners.
RB Note: Regulators are good for some builds, but test Rechargers and Regulators yourself first before committing.

Initial 500k:
Dropsuit Command I
Race X Medium Suit III
Race X Logistics I
Dropsuit Upgrades II
Armor Upgrades I
Shield Upgrades I
Dropsuit Core Upgrades II
Uplink Deployment I
Nanocircuitry I
Repair Tool Ops I

Here you've got your tier1 logi suit, tier 1 equipment, militia grade modules and militia grade weapon (starting rifle is all we're gonna have for a while, sorry) right at the start. We'll work on those modules next since we want to stay alive to make our first couple million SP. NOT just running through a meat grinder.

FOLLOW STAGE 2A:Choosing Your Weapon before continuing
Note: CS skills Shield Regulators and Shield Rechargers. Not every fit will benefit from these modules. STAGE 4 covers basic fits. I would suggest instead to go for Grenadier lvl 1 first.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Immortal Guides
#5 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:39  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
STAGE 3A: Your First 5 Million SP cont.

1Milllion:
Armor Plates vs Shield Extenders: I of one, III of the other. Whatever fits your Race
Armor Repair Systems I
Shield Regulator I
Engineering I
Electronics I
Repair Tool III

Now you've got your tier1 logi suit with tier1 modules, equipment, still a militia grade weapon but that's coming next.

1.5 Million:
Weaponry III
Light Weapon Ops III
Weapon X Ops I
Nanocircuitry III
Armor Plating or Shield Ext II (whichever is still at I)

2 Milllion:
Armor Plating or Shield Ext III (Whichever is at II from above)
Drop Uplinks III
Race X Logistics Dropsuit II

Holy Kittens, you're actually starting to look like a real Logi now. Still tier 1 suit but you're carrying advanced tools and even some advanced modules. And that suit is about to change.

2.5 Million:
Race X Logistics Dropsuit III
Electronics II
Engineering II

And yes, that's it... Hey, just wait till you're waiting a month to get one level of one skill.

3 Million:
Armor Repair Systems III
Shield Recharge II
Shield Regulation III

Now you're sitting on a solid ADV LogiBro at only 3mil invested thus far. But it can be made better. A LOT better. We have the technology. We have the science. WE HAVE MATHS!!!

3.5 Million:
Shield Recharge III
Engineering III
Electronics III

4 Million:
Armor Plating or Shield Ext IV
Repair Tool IV

4.5 Million
Armor Plating or Shield Ext V (whichever is IV from above)

5 Million
Repair Tool or Nanocircuitry V

This last one at this point is totally selfless and intended to show your commitment to the role at this point. Both to yourself, your squad and corpmates, and your fellow logis on the field. You are not a guy wearing a Logi suit for some arbitrary means. You are not even a “logistics” runner. You are a LogiBro.

You could also go for the Logistics suit V earlier while at back at 3mil (costs 2,487,920 SP to max the role). At 5 million that would leave all modules and equipment at Advanced tier III with the prototype suit available to you. I suggest modules and equipment in line with and ahead of the suit because the proto-suits, even for specialization roles, are mad expensive and not something you want to be losing left and right while fully decked out, even if only in Adv gear. But sometimes the bonus is worth it, especially for the Minmatar.

It will take almost 273,660 skill points of that race to get to the Logistics class and another 49,760 to get just the first level and have extra CPU/PG. Depending on whether you use boosters or not and how much you play that could take two months or more to get to 5 Million. It is a commitment.



STAGE 4: Advancing your Logistics Race
Your First Steps as a Logi
BASIC Logistics Fitting:
Your basic builds should reflect the code with your weapon of choice and this basic equipment:
Your first builds are 3(4) lvl. 1 or greater Logis - Drop Suits with 3(4) equipment slots

Minmatar , Gallente, & Caldari: 4E slots
#1-4 - EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Nano-Hive, Repair Tool, Drop Uplink or Scanner

Amarr : 3E slots
#1- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Nanite Resupply (Nano-Hive), Repper (repair tool)
#2- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Drop Uplink, Repper OR Active Scanner

Injector, hives, and reppers are usually best starting out. As you advance whatever equipment you choose you will build variations that suit the team and you. You could favor Nanohives that repair armor or active scanners as opposed to the other equipment.

I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows, maximize your suit’s strengths, it cost too much to try and correct the weaknesses:
High Slots: Shield Extender + Shield Recharger, Shield Extender, Shield Energizer or Damage Modifier
Low Slots: Armor Repper + Armor Plates, Shield Regulator (as appropriate), Red or Green Biotics or Profile Dampeners

Rally optional - but needed
Your first job if nobody else will take it: spawn with the Drop Uplink fit and place the it in a protected area for ambush or near an objective for skirmish to rally your troops. When the drop uplink goes down place another. The rest of the time resupply, repair, and reinforce. Or use your scanners to share enemy movements with your fellow soldiers.

Skills to be advancing for a Proto Logi.

You have an Adv level Logi, here are some suggestions before pushing to proto level:

- Reinforce -
Depending on your Tank style (shield or armor) invest in these which give a bonus for a module type and open up new levels of modules to use:
Note: Your builds most will commonly use at least 1 shield extender, 1 repair, and 1 armor module. Just skilling to the advanced levels that give the better modules are a good choice - even if the race does not excel in that area because you want what little you have to count when you throw it on your suit.

Choose 3 strengths and max those skills from this list (ones you use):
Dropsuit Armor Upgrades: +5% dropsuit armor
Armor Plating: +2% armor module
Armor Repair Systems: +5% repair module
Dropsuit Shield Upgrades: +5% dropsuit shield
Shield Extension: +2% shield module
Shield Recharging: +3% recharge module
Shield Regulation: +2% regulator module
Profile Dampening: -2% to dropsuit scan profile - 5lvls and 1Complex module to beat adv scanners - but not many Scouts

When fits are lacking:
Dropsuit Electronics: +5% dropsuit CPU
Dropsuit Engineering: +5% dropsuit PG

Then Push for your Proto Logi, another 1,940,580 SP to max racial bonus and slots.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Immortal Guides
#6 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:40  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
STAGE 5: The Proto Logi
The Proto and Effective Skills to Maximize
When does one go for the Proto Logi Level? Whenever you want. If you have at least Advanced gear available for all the gear you commonly use then it is appropriate to go for it. I would suggest a maximization of 3 defense skills and 2 equipment skills first before going for it. Because: Maxed This requires over 2.5 million SP. It is not for the faint of heart to attempt. You are looking at a weeks of play time and passive accumulation, with or without boosters, to hit this level. You will want to have many of your skills already at a satisfying place before attempting this Proto level.

Also look at your reasoning. Having a better racial bonus may be really important for you or of little importance. Most often people push for the proto level for the increased PG/CPU for better modules and weapons. If you are doing 'fine' in your opinion just wait. It is a difficult mountain to climb and expensive to maintain.

Recommended Skill increases once at Proto level:

Also Note that although it is not listed in the skill description advancing a core equipment/module skill reduces the PG by 3-5% per level. So even a militia build will benefit from the increase.

-Resupply-
Nanocircuitry
Higher tiered nanohives resupply at faster rates, repair armor, last longer, or cover wider areas.
&
-Rezz-
Nanocircuitry
Higher tiered nanite injectors restore 80% of a player’s armor and shields. Not the 30% of basic or the 50% of advanced; giving the players of your team that armor tank a better chance of surviving the rezz and fighting back rather than just needing to run away to get repaired. Greatly helps your team - if they will call out.

-Rezz-/-Reinforce-
Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades:
1% sprint/stamina/stamina recovery per level and opens up modules that affect sprinting and stamina. You could be a speedy Logi.

-Rally-
Drop Uplinks
Create a rally spawn for a fall back position. Drop Uplinks are one of the most valuable pieces of equipment on the battlefield - spawning near the battle, behind the enemy, never allowing an enemy to regroup, near a hacked point for quick recovery, etc. but difficult to deploy effectively. Try to use ADV or Proto as the wait times for players can be maddening.

-Rally-/-Reinforce-
Active Scanners
A burst of red dots on people’s scanners will put the attention of other blue dots in the area over there or allow you to call out their position better than words can describe over a mic. Most scans will broadcast to all Teammates (default setting).

-Repair-
Repair Tool Operation
Lvl 1 try using the variants like the Flux Repair tool. It gives you a longer stream and can keep you out of danger. Others work better on vehicles/infantry/installations. Lvl 3 should be the Triage for increased infantry repair. Going proto gives you a two streamer... very nice, or one that can repair 125hp/sec at close range.


OTHER SKILLS to try

Secondaries for You (you selfish kitten - but recommended)
These are all costly but helpful
Profile Dampening: -2% dropsuit scan profile (you disappear a bit more on the scanners) Helpful if you can commit the slots to dampening - a large sacrifice at times.

Weapon: You need to kill in an FPS so maximize a few weapon traits. (+7 Million and counting for each weapon)

Demolitions: Play with this, if you have the equipment slots to pack this stuff around. Proximity mines are only AV and you can lay down up to only a few of them at a time (still nerfed). Place them on paths highly traveled by LAV's to get free kills. Remote explosives are a good tool for defense. You can have up to three out at a time (more as upgraded), 1 detonation signal will set them all off at once. Place at objectives - signal to stop/kill a hacker. Place in groups, at CRU's, or at corners and time the explosion for great fun - you may get hate mail for this.
PLUS, Now RE's are STICKY! Place on walls, behind objectives, or slap them all on an LAV and suicide a tank!

Hacking: 3+ if you plan on being effective in skirmish. The Logi suit already has a natural hacking bonus as do scouts (5%). Though a very expensive skill I suggest maximizing it. (1.5 Million) Cuts the hack time so you can actually hack a CRU or Letter before they can respawn and revenge kill you.

Grenades: Explosions for any occasion. AV, Flux, and Locus all gain bonuses to radius and damage with each tier.

Currently can’t recommend these skills as they are only a few meters from the character... it is your choice:

Precision Enhancement: +2% dropsuit scan precision (more easily scan others)
Range Amplification: +10% dropsuit scan radius (you scan a greater distance)


SPECIALIZED BUILDS
Infiltrators: Speed mods and Jumping mods, cloaking eq, dampening mods, and Hacking Mods. Just run around taking objectives. But a scout will naturally beat logis most times.

AV Eliminators. With a Amarr mostly, Logis: the many high slots filled with damage mods greatly increase the power of a proto swarmer, makes you the king of vehicle popping... but you can’t kill anything else, unless you are Amarr with a sidearm. Or just really good grenades may be your bag... baby.

Tear Miners: Mines and explosives play well for your character as you have all the equipment slots in the world. Use them, experiment with them. It can be really fun.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Immortal Guides
#7 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:40  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
STAGE 6: Equipment, Advice and Final Words
EQUPMENT

Drop-links: Deployable spawn point. These War Points come at cost of delayed spawn time, unless the race is Amarr, but it will let your dead team mates rejoin the fight nearly anywhere. Without a well placed drop-link on the field you will spawn on the front line, home base, a letter, or randomly on the map (ambush).

Repair Tools: A 2 handed tool that locks on targeted objects and repairs armor at a set rate up to the injured's maximum. The rep-rate is continuous until: the stream is broken, target is out of range, target dies/is destroyed, or trigger is released. At higher levels a logi will often keep the rep-tool,or repper, locked onto a teammate and follow them through battle gaining WP from kills and reps. It can be effective at higher levels and some variants offer double streams in order to rep 2 objects at once. (a favored method for reaping WP - Get Core repper, at 125hp/s (Minmatar 150-ish), and follow an Armored HMG)

Nanohives: Deployable resupply/repair points. Militia level last for 2 seconds. Advanced level and Prototype level can repair armor, last longer, and cover a wider area and reap many War Points - almost need a Caldari to keep them running. (Nanos, reppers, and uplinks maximize WP)

Active Scanner: These can allow you to control the flow of a battle outside of your squad. It lights up the enemies scanned on your teammates' radar, as well as equipment, hopefully turning the attention to the danger or allowing you to call them out. You are locked into its use for the duration of the scan time and cannot switch your weapons, thus - you may be left vulnerable when using it.

Nanite Injectors: Stab a downed teammate with this to bring them back with 30, 50, 80, or 100% armor & SHIELDS. It counts against their KDR but the team does not lose a clone and they do not lose a fitting. I do suggest committing to the 80 or 50 level on your fits as you can only rez people who request a pickup - so avoid the the basic dirty needle unless your ADV or Pro rep tool can finish the job.

Remote Explosives: Mines that explode with a signal once activated - all at once. Often placed on objectives to catch hackers or in tight locations like a doorways for maximum damage.
Sticky! - sticks to most surfaces when thrown (not ceilings) like LAV's, Tanks, walls, floors, etc.

Proximity Mines: Mines that only react to vehicles. Tanks, LAV’s, and whatever may come in the future. Proxies themselves have different Max Active stats: Standard being 4, Advanced is 5, Proto is 6 (and carried is 3, 3, and 4 respectively). Some vehicles are faster than the automated signal to explode and thus evade destruction.

Cloaking: You can fit it, barely.


Final Words
There are many different builds and many different pieces of knowledge that could have been added. Like basic tactics - Move from cover to cover or "If you are dying before they do get more HP, if they are running off before you can kill them get damage mods." - not mine but very true.

The trick is to find your playing style. Example: While the Shotty is awesome the Logi is slower than most players and also has a high scan level so the element of surprise is lost and you cannot evade as well - yet some people have figured out how to play well with it.

I like the support role; however the Logi Proto suits are amazingly powerful because of the customization possibilities. You could turn your Logi into a dmg dealing speed freak or an AV terror. The possibilities are not covered in this guide. This is just for the beginners. Many other Logis have offered input and specifically made threads on different builds, basic tactics, drop uplinks, and many other subjects. This will get you started in the role.

Experiment with weapons and setups to find your niche. The equipment bonus of the Logi is your advantage. Make a pile of proximity mines with remote explosives and see a tank just melt with surprise. There are different ways to make your squads work - you can be the one that tips the battle in your teams favor.


READ AND UNDERSTAND
These are two comments on what it means to be a Logibro, not a logistics class, a Logibro. If you do not understand then you are looking for a class with equipment and this guide is not for you. This is for the Logibro.

Vyzion Evri wrote:

From Vyzion Eyri, it fits with the selfless role of the Logibro:
I will spend whatever costs necessary to ensure blueberries know they are never alone in the fight to overcome to pubstompers.

There is no battlefield I will not walk, no mountain I will not scale, no LAV I will not stand in front of, if it means the blueberries realize that one day, one glorious day, they will be that man. That selfless logibro who gave up 500k in one game to prove to them that protobears may be tough, but it is the spirit that lasts.

I will fight to the bitter end to pick up that fallen comrade, even if it means sacrificing myself by placing my shields between the body and the sniper I know is watching, hoping for a free kill, knowing that his rebirth will begin with the death of his savior.

I will sink to the bottom of my wallet to ensure that blueberries will never cry for ammo, never hurt for armor, never sigh for bleeding out.

I will work until the enemies see my selfless acts of purity as true Logibro-ness, and refuse to kill me.

Sometimes, it is the simple fact that a hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple as placing a nanohive on a blueberry and telling him his killing streak wasn't over, that keeps me going.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Immortal Guides
#8 Posted: 2013.05.19 05:42  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
READ AND UNDERSTAND cont.
Chankk Saotome wrote:
I have a dream... It is a dream deeply rooted in the Logibro dream.

I have a dream, that one day amongst the constructs of Ashlands, waves of heavies and assaults will be trailed by golden lines of life saving armor repair, standing in the glow of restocking nanohives reaching out and crushing the foe before them. I have a dream.

I have a dream. That downed bluedots will not be afraid or too impatient to wait for the aide of a nanite injector and even stay beside their fellow clone for supplemental armor repair. I have a dream.

I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by their KDR but by the true benefit they offer their team, I have a dream today!

I have a dream, that one day, from sweltering plains of Skim Junction to the frozen peaks of Manus, men and women will work together and aid one another to their fullest for the benefit of all above and beyond their own self interest, I have a dream.

I have a dream, that one day, even right there in the fields of Line Harvest little blue dots, and little green dots, will join hands as sisters and brothers in overcoming the overwhelming odds of reddot oppression to work in the full spirit of brotherhood, I HAVE A DREAM TODAY!
__________

A strong man can do many things,
But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.



TIPS AND TRICKS – J Falcs edited by RedBleach

• Toss an uncooked grenade or two around a corner and it can buy you that second or two you need to rez a teammate.

• Don't drop nanohives in a popular grenade point, place them a bit farther back or off to a corner with a little cover.

Generally, you're added firepower is more beneficial than a repper. But, generally isn't always the rule. In a two on two, you're repper will do little for your teammate usually. Things change up some with a heavy though when their HMGs can hold groups at bay. This is more of a learned tactic of when to rep and when to fire and only done with proto tools.

• DU should be placed a little farther back than the frontline normally. They tend to last longer and are less likely of being overrun.

• The active scanner has high, but limited, vertical scanning. Always nice getting to a building and scanning for infantry on the roofs.

• If you have them,don't be afraid to use BPOs of other suit types. My DU build is a scout suit. I quickly drop a few links (one in between start spawn and close to first point, and another between first point and next point. Then switch out at a resupply or die trying.

• If you run flux, toss one into a null cannon before capping. Gets rid of REs (they do not show up on passive scans).

• Set up shop outside a hack point with nanohives and start chucking nades. It can buy the time you need to hold enemies at bay while your squad forms up on you. Likewise, the same is true when playing defense on a point.

• Let your squad mates know you are a running a repper. Some of them will remove a low armor repper since you will handle rep duty.

• Use supply depots to replenish your equipment. Drop two hives, run to depot, switch to new suit, and you're ready to go when the two hives run out.

• Make lots of builds. A game changer is only a suit switch away.

Stage 6B: Loyalty Store
FW or Faction Warfare offers you the ability to battle for whatever faction you decide to side with. No decision is permanent, you could battle for Caldari and then radically switch to Gallente. The battles have 5 things you should understand:

1. What happens here affects the EVE world in real time.

2. Eve Pilots, real players, rain down the orbital strikes in battle

3. Orbitals are earned by the whole team, not per squad, and the first squad leader to request an orbital after it becomes available gets it.

4. Friendly Fire is ON. You can kill anything with a health bar be it red or blue. At 5,000 points of FF damage you will be kicked for the day. If you kill an ally they can choose to punish or forgive you. 5 Punishes in a battle will kick you from FW for the day.

5. Loyalty points are earned with little ISK. - really. Those loyalty points accrue and increase per level of loyalty to a given faction, which increases the Loyalty points received at the end of a match. Fighting on the opposing side of a given faction will lower your Loyalty rating of the direct enemy of the other faction.

The Loyalty Store offers items that are bought with ISK and LP - but often at reduced costs.
What you can buy from the loyalty store is of great import. Each race offers their own suits and gear that, like Aurum gear, can be used at a reduced level requirement, sometimes less PG/CPU, and bonuses beyond normal gear. For example:
Minmatar offers a Proto 2 stream rep tool that has a 25m stream and reps at a rate of 90hps
Caldari offers a Proto injector that will revive with 100% armor & SHIELDS
Gallente offers Proto scanners with higher precision and range (not time though)
Amarr offers Proto drop uplinks that can be used when you only have the adv. level.

On top of specific equipment each race has modules, vehicles, dropsuits, and gear that are unique to that race -but it also means that they may not have other items that you may use. Amarr has plenty of armor mods but no shield mods for example.
The loyalty store is a great way to get advanced and proto gear when you don't currently have the levels to use it. Only have your logi suit at the advanced level? Fight a few loyalty battles to get some points for a Proto version. Besides that some of the gear is just better than the normal variants. But you have to win.


END?

Please, offer any insights you wish or ask any question. I would prefer that this thread is used for questions and suggestions for the guide. It is not meant to be an end all, just a working baseline for beginners.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

SyNergy Gaming
#9 Posted: 2013.05.19 06:28  |  Edited by: Chankk Saotome
Listen to this man if you ever have any intention of fielding any kind of support whatsoever. Even for assaults who don't understand the usage of their equipment slot this is highly beneficial info, not to mention an understanding on what is going through the mind of the guy running behind you with that needle, repair tool, nanohive, etc.

I would like to have all other suits read this to understand some of the demands that logis put on themselves already, much less dealing with the demands of their squad mates and others on the field.

I'm not claiming we're anyone special, we're no more important than anyone else, but no less either, and that sentiment is lost to most of the common ground-fodder we come across in this universe.

[EDITS AHEAD]
__________________________

As for weapon class selection, I think it should be added that without militia variants of all weapons it can be a very difficult choice on which weapon to pick up at the moment. This is an extreme oversight on CCP's end because for a proper logi we simply can't spare the extra 100-300k just to mess around with alternative weaponry to find our proper niche. This is because of the high demand of skill dumps into Dropsuit, Module, and primarily Equipment skill branches.

You need to find that ONE weapon early on, and stick with it as I think the Skill Planner proves with new Uprising skill costs. And honestly, just sitting on level 1 should get you most of the way through Advanced suits, modules and equipment in my opinion.

Your gun is a backup fire-support element, and not meant to be slaughtering the masses. You can lay down some support but that weaker gun will also keep you more conservative which means you'll be likely to get your guys back up if things go south. It still needs to be something you're comfortable with, however, so that in a pinch you can still handle your own without just throwing up your hands and lying down to die just because your assault or heavy buddy was downed and there's one guy preventing you from getting him back up.

Personal note on those skill point investments:
I was able to go advanced with everything after the respec with my nearly 7mil, but that's 7mil, and that's a big investment, especially without boosters which I never used except for a 7-day one across the "2-weeks" of 3x SP. On top of that I've personally pushed off proto suits to two months out now in order to get the proto repair tool sooner instead. Two months for two skill points. Be afraid, be very afraid. This is a personal choice, however, which heavily affects me and how I play the game overall, but is more beneficial to my team and the people I squad with.

That is the commitment you're going to be looking at long-term if you're going to be a real LogiBro. There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not "LogiBro" material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys.
___________________________

Note on First Skills:
Agree completely in general, but I would add [Dropsuit Armor Upgrades] in there and probably balance that Armor skill with the and Shield skill both to 4. That's the same amount of total SP (621,920 to be precise) across 2 skills for a much higher E-HP (Effective HP) increase.

That high skill investment to get to lvl 5 might not be worth the investment versus getting your other HP stat up a bit as well as proper equipment and modules, in my opinion of course. Unlike modules, these skills only affect the base rather than the cumulative total statistic, so it really is a simple, straight, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25% bonus. Eventually you will probably want lvl 5 for whatever your particular race is strong in but 310,920 SP for a whole 4hp (25% vs 20% mod on 90 base) isn't helping anyone and hurts your overall skill-tree effectiveness.

Also, with Core Upgrades, you're only benefiting 1% per skill level. I'd say 2-3, and then get Electronics and Engineering up to 3-4 beyond that. 621,920 for 5% CPU/PG with Core Upgrades alone, or lvl 1 Core, lvl 3 Engineering & Electronics for total 16% CPU/PG for 696,600. Again, that's a straight total% mod to your suit's base stat.
__________________________

Also, for the snipers, I think Min Assaults will be the end-all in offensive range one-shot designs. Min 5/2/1 vs Cal 4/3/1, and more CPU/PG to run all the mods you want. Cal might simply be more survivable in sudden close engagements, and if stacking penalties start working for damage mods, that extra slot will give virtually no bonus to the Min gun, but could be an extra shield extender or the like. But I'm getting sidetracked so I'll end this.

__________________________

I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits. I can see the numbers, I've made the charts, I do ridiculous maths. This we all know. But, I'm still torn about whether lvl 5 is much of a benefit for most skills except actual tools (modules, equipment, weaponry... Oh, and of course, dropsuits).

Just my opinion, but my opinion is basically that I just really don't get it and would like some help figuring it out.
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
#10 Posted: 2013.05.20 14:47
This is a very good guide and introduction to the class. I just started playiing Dust right before official release, but ended up investing in the Elite pack just to get the Logi BPO and I'm having a blast with it.

Granted I am new, but I agree with everything said above aside from the importance of upgrading the Armor/Shield base skill as a "first" skill. I think this should depend on which racial class you are eventually going to skill into.

The Proto suits hover around 90-180 base HP on shields or armor, so at Level V the benefit will range from +23-45HP - not significant compared to the HP from modules instead. Upgrading these two skills to V, in my humble opinion, should be low priority - much wiser to invest in skilling up your Logi equipment or modules first, then if you have the SP, gain them gradually if you wish.

I plan to stat into Caldari suits and shield tank, so even if I keep Shield Upgrades at Level I I'll have 597HP - skilling it to 5 would give me 633HP, only a 7.5% increase to my overall shields at Level 1. An additional 23HP in armor will be even worse when compared to the SP investment - 609,400 SP to get either skill from I to V.

Similarly, with the Dropsuit Core Upgrades, this might only be worth upgrading past Level II if your ideal Proto fitting is only a few points in excess of your available CPU/PG. At most, Logi Proto suits have 390 CPU and 78 PG, so is an additional 11.7 CPU and 2.34 PG for 572,100 SP really worth it unless you're already at Level IV Engineering/Electronics and only need an extra 3% to complete your fit? Of course, if you're over by only a few percent for both CPU and PG then it might be worth it, but again I think it should be an "as it suits your needs" skill rather than a first skill to max.

I have a few questions pertaining to Logis that you guys probably know the answers to:

1) Is it true that Caldari Logis can get the highest shields in the game? BTW, I think you have a typo on the Caldari Proto slot count - should be 5H/4L/3E.

2) I have a love-hate relationship with flux grenades. Love them when I have them, hate them when the enemy does or I mess up my throw. Does the total damage done by flux grenades spread out over everyone in the splash radius, or is it 1200HP shield damage each person in the radius? Will flux grenades destroy Nanohives/Drop Uplinks/Mines etc?

3) Do most Caldari shield tanks just survive on speed upgrades in their Low slots rather than upping armor? Your "fun build" sounds interesting so long as I could avoid those flux grenades or laser weapons.

4) Are explosives worth skilling into? If i put a remote explosive on my Drop Uplink or Nanohive, will it also destroy the Drop Uplink or Hive in case it is overrun?

5) Your guide didn't make much mention of Drop Uplinks. Do you just run a forward scout to set up the DU, or a throwaway Logi build, then switch to hives/whatever after respawn?

5) If a tank has some shield damage, will my repper do anything to help the recharge rate? I thought reppers were for armor only, and did not effect shields.

Thank you again for the very informative guide!
Immortal Guides
#11 Posted: 2013.05.20 15:55  |  Edited by: RedBleach LeSanglant
Chankk Saotome wrote:
I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits. I can see the numbers, I've made the charts, I do ridiculous maths. This we all know. But, I'm still torn about whether lvl 5 is much of a benefit for most skills except actual tools (modules, equipment, weaponry... Oh, and of course, dropsuits).

Just my opinion, but my opinion is basically that I just really don't get it and would like some help figuring it out.



Good points all. This guide is definitely in its beta form - as so much has changed and I only Know the AMARR and MINMATAR logi's and have no experience with the others. Therefore I am leaning heavily on the reports I read online by the sources I trust like you, Cross, and others.

True, Lvl 5 is a large commitment for any skill. And some skills are not needed. As posted by Sanya Rayya, Maxing you inherent shields or armor is not much of a bonus if they are so low. Thanks for the input.

Working...

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

SyNergy Gaming
#12 Posted: 2013.05.20 16:15  |  Edited by: Chankk Saotome
Sana Rayya wrote:

1) Is it true that Caldari Logis can get the highest shields in the game? BTW, I think you have a typo on the Caldari Proto slot count - should be 5H/4L/3E.


YES!!! Someone else is using my H/L/E slot count method! LET THE WORD BE SPREAD!!!

Anyway, serious note...

Quote:
The Proto suits hover around 90-180 base HP on shields or armor, so at Level V the benefit will range from +23-45HP - not significant compared to the HP from modules instead. Upgrading these two skills to V, in my humble opinion, should be low priority - much wiser to invest in skilling up your Logi equipment or modules first, then if you have the SP, gain them gradually if you wish.


Actually, a valid point... Always trying to maximize SP investment benefit and you're probably dead on here. Maybe a min 2, or 3 for whichever is your race's suit strength. You'll need a minimum to unlock the skills themselves anyway but they don't do much more than a passive bonus and if it's not your high stat it's not giving much of one. Modules are going to be your lifesaver for sure.

Note on the Cal shield logi. Yes, it's beast... now. Mainly because it's racial skill affects Shield Ext MODULES, not shield base. Which is broken as all getout. It means that 66 shield extenders get shot up to 82.5 shields per module. Ridiculousness, and despite CCP's love of Caldari and Shields, it's a broken mechanic that will only lead to massive gamewide entropy. And by that I mean it will end up being the only suit anyone uses, even with anti-shield weaponry where it is currently.

Also, I unlock Engineering and Electronics as I unlock modules and equipment. I do the math so I can keep ahead because it's really frustrating to be stuck with a tool or mod you can't use because you're just 14 CPU shy, or 2PG over. I literally had a suit last build that was 1CPU and 1PG over. It drove me nuts.

Q&A:
1) Cal will have the highest shields in the game, but purely through modules and base stat. The "Extender Module Efficacy" will likely be getting a major tweaking if not complete revision due to the massive influx of the Caldari bumblebee.

2) Flux nades are glorious. If you're a shield tanker they can be your bane, but if you're armor or balanced you can just run in and kamikaze flux a team of the above Caldari bees and go to town with an AOE weapon like the Flaylock or MD. Even wild AR spray-and-pray can wipe out most Cal bees who haven't upped ANY kind of armor defenses in this situation. Fluxes hit all within it's little bubble (I love that animation, very clear on what the flux hits and what it doesn't). They WILL also kill enemy hives, uplinks, and mines (which will still detonate so be wary) and this ends up being a rather safe way to remove said elements, especially if you can't quite climb up to the building that uplink is sitting on top of.

3) A few Caldari rely on speed. I think many Caldari up their armor a bit. I think they all run at least one regulator though which is almost mandatory for front-line shield tanking in order to get those shields returning asap because otherwise they're stuck trying to hide in case someone DOES flux them and they're only rocking 90-110 armor.

4) Explosives are AWESOME, but I only think that because I've been using them for like 16 years now. (Goldeney 007, booyah). Anyway. They will not kill your own hives and uplinks as these get turned into "friendly" objects, but can be used to set traps for enemies by dropping a mine and immediately dropping a hive right on top of it. Most enemies will shoot hives up close which will in turn detonate the mine hidden within. They can also kill yourself obviously. This includes Proxy Mines going off next to you if an enemy vehicle runs over it. I've died more to my own proxy mines going off too soon or too close in Carmageddon 514 than I have to actual LAVs crushing me in recent times.

5) Personally, I have 3 of the exact same build except that they're as follows equipment-wise (injector, uplink, tool), (injector, hive, tool), (injector, hive, RDX). I run the uplink to get a good footing on a situation for my team. Occasionally my teammates can handle their own hives which is pretty beast as it means I only have to worry about keeping them alive and healed as well as maintaining our spawn position. If I have the time I'll swap to the hive suit for the long-haul but usually I just keep going in the uplink suit till I die personally and then check to see if more links are needed to keep the field populated with spawn points, or if they're good I'll go hives instead to give more support. That's just me, so not sure if it helps. The RDX is purely for defensive objective play where I'm usually sitting with one or two other guys and not moving the whole match.

5) Two 5's? Anyway... 5.2? 5b? Repair Tools only repair armor. This applies to Infantry, Vehicles, and Installations. The rest will have to regenerate naturally in the course of "not being in combat".

That last one was easy. Thanks.

I hope this helps. I'll be looking into those skill element points you made if I get the skill respec as requested. I intend to follow the general same path but with the skill changes proto class suits will be about the same cost as it is to get into Advanced spec suits currently (Yes, I've done this math already, it's not that hard with my charts).

As for the others I'll be running numbers again once we get finalized SP multiplier listings but you're definitely on to something there. Maybe even just the 1point minimum to have points to max out reppers, extenders, regulators, and even other tools...

Yes, I'll definitely be looking into this. But I'll still be getting the lvl 4 Engineering/Electronics as I'm already pushing things with just adv gear on an adv logi suit. Heck, I use an 'Exile' as a weapon because it's all I can fit. And the forums want to LOWER my CPU/PG!? Bahh. BAHH I say!!!
Immortal Guides
#13 Posted: 2013.05.20 20:54
^^ Amen brother. Thanks for fielding those questions. I've taken both of your recomendations and taken about 5 more hours to reorganize and rewrite the parts. Please comment again.
Adjusted.
-reading flow and format
-sections divided and reorganized
-skill value and recommendations for specific suits
-spoke to basic fittings
-adjusted recommended levels for skills
-rewrote suit opinions
-... writing this post after all that work = my mind has turned to jelly.
Thanks for your input I'll keep working tomorrow.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
#14 Posted: 2013.05.20 23:32  |  Edited by: shady merc
Very nice guide you have put together.

Here is some food for thought for younger logi on a few pieces of equipment.

Drop-links: I love these things. My first suit in every battle has them( drop-link,nano,repair). Not only are these easy points for you but it will let your dead team mates rejoin the fight a bit safer. Without a drop-link on the field you will either spawn on the front lines( usually without cover ) or randomly on the map somewhere.

You will notice that a couple of drop-link are capable of more then 1 active at a time. This is both a blessing and a curse. Being able to drop 2 links will allow you to drop a very safe spawn point and a spawn point right on the front lines so even if your team loses the front line everyone can still spawn in as a group. The benefit of only being allowed to have one active drop-link is that when you drop the second link it will turn off the first one. You can use this to stop blueberries from spawning in on an overrun drop-link saving your team clones.

Nano-hives: Of all my equipment this one and injector change based on what my squad is carrying. Looking at the begining choices the basic Nano hive or the advance K-2 are great for ammo. If my squad mates are carry a few nano hives as well you can switch over to the compact version. These do not last nearly as long but they do have armor repair which isn't accessible until Nano-circuity 4. The biggest advantage of using the compact is having extra cpu/pg for other module/equipment items. Example when I use compact I typically increase my repair tool meta level.

Active scanner: These can allow you to control the flow of a battle outside of your squad. I find these most effective for stopping the enemy from flanking you. If you see someone moving far left or right just hit them with an active scanner and usually some one will turn there attention to them. They are also a good way of pointing out snipers to the group.

I will probably add to this as time goes.

added 5/21/2013

Nano injectors: this is our bread and butter. Ok so not only does this save a clone for your team/ saves isk for the person you pick up, you also make 60 points. while currently it seems people do not want to bleed out giving you time to rescue them you can do a few things to help that. One squad up with a mic, be very vocal about heading toward a down player. Number 2 be careful about when you pick up down player. If you keep picking up player only to have them die instantly they will stop waiting on you to pick them up. A number of ways to help prevent this.

Be aware of the battle at all times this lets you know if they are going to get shot instantly or not. I find it is best to engage a battle in a peek a boo fashion. Pop out from around cover and put a couple rounds down range. Go back into cover heal armor drop nano-hives pop out again. This will keep you in-tune with the battle while giving good support. Remember as a logi you are looking more for kill assist/triage/support points then kills.

upgrade your nano injector. I suggest getting to the adv one that gives 50% armor back. I know at first this seems like a disadvantage for you. If they come back with more life that is less triage you can make from them. While this is true it does give you more time to support in other ways. Healing other people dropping nano hives/drop links shooting that gun you seem to be carrying for no reason. You will end up making more points and helping your team more if you upgrade this. Another side benefit of upgrading is you can go for the riskier revivals. If doing I suggest a couple of things after the revival put your body between them and enemy fire. This gives them a moment to get up and get to safety. Also pay try to pay attention to who you are picking up. picking up a heavy in a risky situation will work our better then a scout.
Immortal Guides
#15 Posted: 2013.05.20 23:34
Thanks for the input Shady. I do need to add an equipment section.

The Logi Code. Quiet Ally to CPM2

Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
#16 Posted: 2013.05.21 00:38  |  Edited by: J Falcs
RedBleach, thanks for your guides. You were one of the first things I read when I first started playing Dust. Invaluable.

Agreed that an equipment section would be great. And Shady has given a nice starting off point.

The only other thing I can think of is a general tactics section. Little tips of the trade that tend to help in every game, but most people only learn after dying many times over. For example:


  • Toss an uncooked grenade or two around a corner and it can buy you that second or two you need to rez a teammate. Of course...good luck getting the rez on the first button press even if you're straddling the corpse.

  • Don't drop nanohives in a popular grenade point, place them a bit farther back or off to a corner with a little cover.

  • Generally, you're added firepower is more beneficial than a repper. But, generally isn't always the rule. In a two on two, you're repper will do little for your teammate usually. Things change up some with a heavy though when their HMGs can hold groups at bay. This is more of a learned tactic of when to rep and when to fire.

  • DU should be placed a little farther back than the frontline normally. They tend to last longer and are less likely of being overrun.

  • The active scanner has unlimited vertical scanning. Always nice getting to a building and scanning for infantry on the roofs.

  • If you have them,don't be afraid to use BPOs of other suit types. My DU build is a scout suit. I quickly drop a few links (one in between start spawn and close to first point, and another between first point and next point.

  • If you run flux, toss one into a null cannon before capping. Gets rid of REs (although in this build, I am seeing much less of them than in Chromosome).

  • Set up shop outside a hack point with nanohives and start chucking nades. It can buy the time you need to hold enemies at bay while your squad forms up on you. Likewise, the same is true when playing defense on a point.

  • Let your squad mates know you are a running a repper. A lot of them will remove a lo armor repairer since you will handle rep duty.

  • Use supply depots to replenish your equipment. Drop two hives, run to depot, switch to new suit, and you're ready to go when the two hives run out.

  • Make lots of builds. A game changer is only a suit switch away.
SyNergy Gaming
#17 Posted: 2013.05.21 08:39  |  Edited by: Chankk Saotome
So taking into account other concepts brought to light I've written this up.
So, check this build and skill plan and give me feedback.

This is a min-maxing LogiBro, coming straight out of the gates with the new suit SP requirements. I'll do skill levels for every 500k SP up through the first 5 mil here. If you haven't got it figured out by that point then we're all really in trouble. Me especially for failing to educate.

Again, I'm going based on my own success with a Min balanced-tank logi but this is a very general flow of the whole logi progression and can be tweaked but I think this is the best to maximize your total SP cost-to-benefit investment as early. I will make some notes along the way as well.

Initial 500k:
Dropsuit Command I
X Medium Suit III
X Logistics I
Dropsuit Upgrades II
Armor Upgrades I
Shield Upgrades I
Dropsuit Core Upgrades II
Uplink Deployment I
Nanocircuitry I
Repair Tool Ops I

Here you've got your tier1 logi suit, tier 1 equipment, militia grade modules and militia grade weapon (AR is all we're gonna have for a while, sorry) right at the start. We'll work on those modules next since we want to stay alive to make our first couple million SP. NOT just running through a meat grinder.

1mil:
Armor Plates vs Shield Extenders: I of one, III of the other.
(I'm going show these a lot. Just use whichever best fits your race or gameplay style but stick with it and keep that your prime defensive line, superior to the other)
Armor Repair Systems I
Shield Regulator I
Engineering I
Electronics I
Repair Tool Ops III

Now you've got your tier1 logi suit with tier1 modules, equipment, still a militia grade weapon but that's coming next.
_____________________________________

Break and make an ALT.

Is it made yet?

Okay, now log in and do the following:

Use that ALT's starter 500k SP and buy straight into these skills and nothing else. You're just using this character to test weapon types and then they're going bye-bye:

Weaponry III, Light Weapon Ops IV and the following weapon types:
AR Ops I, SCAR Ops I, Laser Rifle Ops I, MD Ops I, Shotgun Ops I.

Now we build the simulation.
Get a Militia Gallente Medium Frame. Load it up with a couple militia armor plates to slow it down and no other modules. Then use your one weapon on it and a militia repair tool, no hives, no injectors. The purpose of this is to keep you in the mindset of a LogiBro from start to finish even during this little side excursion. Now you're a super-scrub logi. Go die like you're supposed to... a LOT.

But more importantly, get a feel for the weapons. Their general alterations as you progress in levels aren't that different from the militia or starting tier so if you can't handle it now you won't be able to later either.

Yes, you're wasting time but this is a good practice before specing into anything in DUST if you don't want to waste days, or weeks, or even months of SP on unnecessary skill branches.

Got a weapon you like? A SINGLE weapon you will rarely if ever deviate from. And if you will it will only be for militia grade? No, seriously, you can't be wasting points. I'm gonna go for the most costly weapon to jump start with the MD in the LogiBro continuation but you may have saved some points off not upgrading weaponry beyond minimal requirements for the SCAR or AR.

If for some psychotic reason you decided the shotgun was the logi weapon for you, you haven't spent enough time practicing. Go out and do it again.
_____________________________________

Back to our main:

1.5mil:
Weaponry III
Light Weapon Ops III
Mass Driver Ops I
Nanocircuitry III
Armor Plating or Shield Ext II (whichever is still at I)

2mil:
Armor Plating or Shield Ext III (Whichever is at II from above)
Drop Uplinks III
X Logistics Dropsuit II

Holy kittens, you're actually starting to look like a real logi now. Still tier 1 suit but you're carrying advanced tools and even some advanced modules. And that suit is about to change.

2.5mil:
X Logistics Dropsuit III
Electronics II
Engineering II

And yes, that's it... Hey, just wait till you're waiting a month to get one level of one skill.

3mil:
Armor Repair Systems III
Shield Recharge II
Shield Regulation III

Now you're sitting on a solid ADV LogiBro at only 3mil invested thus far. But it can be made better. A LOT better. We have the technology. We have the science. WE HAVE MATHS!!!

3.5mil
Shield Recharge III
Engineering III
Electronics III

4mil
Armor Plating or Shield Ext IV
Repair Tool IV

4.5mil
Armor Plating or Shield Ext V (whichever is IV from above)

5mil
Repair Tool V

_____________________________________

This last one at this point is totally selfless and intended to show your commitment to the role at this point. Both to yourself, your squad and corpmates, and your fellow logis on the field. You are not a guy wearing a logi suit for some arbitrary means. You are not even a “logistics” runner. You are a LogiBro.
SyNergy Gaming
#18 Posted: 2013.05.21 08:40  |  Edited by: Chankk Saotome
From this point on you'll need to continue along self-survival lines with upgrades in Shield Regulation and Recharge (because even the passive boost is a benefit if you're not willing to use the modules though they're awesome for frontline logi'ing) as well as getting that proto logi suit which is another 2mil all on its own and likely more Electronics and Engineering levels for their CPU/PG boosts.
_____________________________________

You could also go fo the Logistics suit V earlier while at back at 3mil. That would leave all modules and equipment at Advanced tier III with the prototype suit available to you. I personally went for modules and equipment in line with and ahead of my suit because the proto-suits, even for specialization roles, are mad expensive and not something you want to be losing left and right while fully decked out, even if only in Adv gear.

As stated before, we are needed on the field to do our job to the best of our ability, whether our teammates even notice or acknowledge our presence. Rushing to a proto suit without proper equipment and modules doesn't exemplify that ideology.
_____________________________________

Of course, being thoroughly comfortable with your weapon here also, you might be considering an upgrade for that as well. Following this growth plan strictly sets you up to be one beast logi in my opinion, even if you're not totally sure what you're doing early on. Once you're set at 5mil, it's a good opportunity to go back and try new things.

You might want to go back to or remake your ALT skill-tester to do so but there are some people having success with new scanners, RDX, and other equipment tools available. Be aware, if you're not hauling needle and rep gun first and foremost, you're not in your LogiBro suit. But that's cool too, because sometimes the team needs some tactical warfare logi'ing as well, and they're still going to expect you to be the one to resolve that on top of what you do already.
_____________________________________

REMEMBER:
This skill progression is carefully calculated out based on the new SP multipliers for dropsuits being dropped to 4 for basic, 8 for racial specializations rather than the 6/10 currently, as well as the spec suit requirement dropped to lvl 3 of basic frames. Though that message has been disappeared by CCP, I should certainly hope this will remain true as a lot of us are really hoping for that kind of revision to the SP requirements and just sitting around not spending points on squat until it happens.

_____________________________________

A note from Chankk Saotome:

This is only my opinion but also precisely how I plan to skill my own character with the next requested SP respec. I'll have another 3 million SP beyond this to get my my proto suit and Shield Reg V as I'm already running the shield version of this design and still maintain my RDX and Grenades (even possibly upgrade both of those to 3 while keeping proto Rep tool and adv hives, links, injectors, etc).

But again, this is just me. I'm a madman. The fact that I sat down to write this all should alone tell you how severely disturbed an individual I am in the New Eden universe.

Someone out there is looking for a failing, a weakness, and realizing I've covered for nearly everything for any racial logi suit. If I have failed for any of them, please let me know. With this being a very strong solid launching point from a Minmatar, it should be the same for anyone. And even those Amarr who complain they only have 2 slots so why bother with 3-4 equipment skills, just remember, a proper LogiBro isn't just the team healer. He's a swiss-army knife of awesome. That means having lots of flexibility and variant dropsuit loadouts to switch to when the need for them comes up.

_____________________________________

A strong man can do many things,
But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
#19 Posted: 2013.05.21 17:00  |  Edited by: Sana Rayya
Chankk - I was scratching my head while reading your skill plan until I saw the note at the end, and re-read it more closely from the beginning. Is this the change in the skill tree that we're being offered a respec for? I definitely hope so!

I especially like the idea of burner characters to test weapons or other skills/buffs. In general I think brand new players are better off recreating after graduating from the Academy and getting pubstomped for the first few times, since more likely than not a lot of skill points were wasted out of ignorance or not realizing that the expected "bonus" was actually insignificant, as with armor/shield upgrades. That certainly applied in my case.

I think ultimately the best way to skill plan is to work backward - design your dream Proto suit, then plan in reverse to see what modules/weapons/equipment/ you can accommodate along the way, and therefore what skills you need to fit them (taking into account having to skill into PG/CPU/Core Upgrades as necessary). Then, when your essential skills are covered and you're effective at your chosen role you can put the icing on the cake with additional nice, but not so beneficial skills.

RedBleach, the rewrite is looking good, but I noticed you repeated the Demolitions paragraph twice. Maybe whatever made me repeat 5) infected you too? Cool Thanks for the answers to my questions.

I was initially considering the Cal Bee but I've decided to spec into Gallente instead, so if my build proves viable I'll send you my thoughts on it. I just think that the extra EQ slot and the racial CPU/PG equipment bonus is far better in terms of squad support since I can carry Lv5 AR/Reppers/Injectors/Hives/Drops while specing into Lv5 Armor and speed upgrades. I'll have no shield, but that will make me a tempting target once my shield is gone, maybe drawing the enemy out for me or the rest of my squad to finish off.

Additionally, since you like explosives, the stacking bonus from Gallente's racial CPU/PG reduction and Explosive's 3% per level CPU reduction means that RE5's are about as CPU/PG demanding as Reppers or Injectors, and I'm thinking they will really come in handy in defending flanks or objectives, not to mention in traps for whoever chases the squishy Logi with no shields around the corner...

BTW, was great squadding with you last night! Hope to link up with you again in the future.
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
#20 Posted: 2013.05.21 18:35
added nano injector to my first post.
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