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Free-to-play Subscription hybrid.

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Ancient Exiles.
#1 Posted: 2016.10.14 01:45  |  Edited by: Talos Vagheitan
I really like how CCP handled the F2P system, but was it the best option for them? Best for the community? Dust was not profitable on its own until the end of its life, and that definitely has an impact on development.

I've thought of an alternative and curious what the community would think. It's a bit of a combination of total free-to-play and the PLEX route of EVE.

Players would purchase a 'mercenary license' that allows them to participate in FW and PC for one month. Pubs are free. There would be different tiers of licenses with better perks for each.



(The system I've imagined if it were applied directly to Dust)

Unlicensed Militia Merc - FREE - not eligible to play FW or PC

Level 1 Basic license - $1.00 OR 1,000,000 ISK - Allows players to participate in FW+PC for one month

Level 2 Advanced License - $5.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $5.00 worth of AUR + 1 key

Level 3 Prototype License
- $10.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $15.00 worth of AUR + 1 key + 1 Booster

Level 4 Officer license - $20.00 - Like above, but comes with more goodies, and maybe a longer license duration. Includes a unique SUPPORTER SKIN only available in this pack.



You get the point.

Don't like "paywalls"? Can also jump through in-game hoops to be issued licenses.

-Players would be able to purchase a stack of licenses and sell them in-game
-Licenses could be offered as Mission Rewards
-Licenses could be a rare salvage item
-Signing up other players earns you a free license
-Permanent 'FW license' could be awarded if you reach a certain rank with that faction.


I feel this system is fair, reasonable, and encourages players to actually keep paying over time. My bro 'usuckatdust' spent $5.00 over the course of this game from beta to shutdown... That's a lot of free entertainment CCP provided to him.




TL;DR


Pubs are free. Playing the other game modes mosts costs a 'Merc license fee', but you also get the equivalent value of AUR along with your license purchase. Tiered licenses for better rewards.


Discuss!

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LulKlz
#2 Posted: 2016.10.14 02:49
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
I really like how CCP handled the F2P system, but was it the best option for them? Best for the community?

I've thought of an alternative and curious what the community would think. It's a bit of a combination of total free-to-play and the PLEX route of EVE.

Players would purchase a 'mercenary license' that allows them to participate in FW and PC for one month. Pubs are free. There would be different tiers of licenses with better perks for each.

(The system I've imagined if it were applied directly to Dust)

Unlicensed merc - FREE - not eligible to play FW or PC

Basic license - $1.00 OR 1,000,000 ISK - Allows players to participate in FW+PC for one month

Level 2 License - $5.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $5.00 worth of AUR

Level 3 License
- $10.00 - Allows participation in FW/PC and includes $15.00 worth of AUR

Elite license - $20.00 - Like above, but comes with more goodies, and maybe a longer license duration.

You get the point.

Players would be able to purchase a stack of licenses and sell them in-game as well.


I feel this system is fair, reasonable, and encourages players to actually keep paying over time. My bro 'usuckatdust' spent $5.00 over the course of this game... That's a lot of free entertainment CCP provided to him.

Would you guys participate in a system like this?

Unless the amounts of ISK per battle are changed. Logibros will be able to pay for their monthly in 1 battle. Good idea though.

Your friendly Pub match logi

Nos Nothi
#3 Posted: 2016.10.14 02:53
Not really sure if it could work in Nova like it does for EVE. Maybe if they break it down into PvE and PvP.

Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.

Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

OSG Planetary Operations
#4 Posted: 2016.10.14 02:55  |  Edited by: Pokey Dravon
See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value.

However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people.

But hey it's worth exploring at the very least.
Ancient Exiles.
#5 Posted: 2016.10.14 03:00
Pokey Dravon wrote:
See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value.

However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people.

But hey it's worth exploring at the very least.


So many free FPS? I can only think of PS2 off the top of my head, what other big ones are there?

I just think this is a better alternative to the F2P version of Dust.

Don't get me wrong, it was great for the players, but I think they could have got a bit more revenue in a fair way, and remained F2P without being P2W.

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OSG Planetary Operations
#6 Posted: 2016.10.14 03:50  |  Edited by: Pokey Dravon
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
Pokey Dravon wrote:
See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value.

However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people.

But hey it's worth exploring at the very least.


So many free FPS? I can only think of PS2 off the top of my head, what other big ones are there?

I just think this is a better alternative to the F2P version of Dust.

Don't get me wrong, it was great for the players, but I think they could have got a bit more revenue in a fair way, and remained F2P without being P2W.


Well I just searched for FPS games that are also Free to Play on Steam, and I got 82 results so....yeah there are a few out there

Honestly if costmetics are done right, there is money to be made there. Take a look at League of Legend's monetization model, or hell, even how Little Big Planet did most of their DLC. Im not against the *option* to have a subbed account that offers some perks at a better rate than buying stuff al la carte, but I think if you're going for a F2P model, you don't want pay walls to unlock content.

Like the whole "Pay $1 a month to unlock FacWar" while I don't really care about the dollar...on a mental level it turns me off. If the game claims to be Free to Play...it seems like a bit of a bait and switch to say "But you need to pay to actually play all of the game". Now I know you mentioned the ISK option but then it turns into the nasty balancing act of "Money" vs "Time to Grind". But who knows I may be alone in that opinion.
Ancient Exiles.
#7 Posted: 2016.10.14 04:00  |  Edited by: Talos Vagheitan
Pokey Dravon wrote:
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
Pokey Dravon wrote:
See I personally prefer subscription based games because I feel you typically get a better value.

However FPS games are tricky...there are so many free fps games out there that it would be a hard sell for a lot of people.

But hey it's worth exploring at the very least.


So many free FPS? I can only think of PS2 off the top of my head, what other big ones are there?

I just think this is a better alternative to the F2P version of Dust.

Don't get me wrong, it was great for the players, but I think they could have got a bit more revenue in a fair way, and remained F2P without being P2W.


Well I just searched for FPS games that are also Free to Play on Steam, and I got 82 results so....yeah there are a few out there

Honestly if costmetics are done right, there is money to be made there. Take a look at League of Legend's monetization model, or hell, even how Little Big Planet did most of their DLC. Im not against the *option* to have a subbed account that offers some perks at a better rate than buying stuff al la carte, but I think if you're going for a F2P model, you don't want pay walls to unlock content.


Ok, just a few things tho.

I mentioned in the original post that this hypothetical "merc license" would be ISK-purchasable as well, and for a reasonable price, so it wouldn't be a paywall.

I'm curious to check that list of 82 F2P shooters, and see if I've heard of any of them. That also goes back to my other point about how much more competition there is on PC, but let's not re-hash that :P

EDIT-------

I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to.

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OSG Planetary Operations
#8 Posted: 2016.10.14 04:10  |  Edited by: Pokey Dravon
To be fair I didnt check the entire list of results so Im sure a handful of them in there are duds, my point being there is more than just a couple options out there.

I guess I just REALLY dislike the idea of buying into content like that for a game that is labled "Free to Play", even with an ISK option it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Lets not forget that largely what allowed the development of Dust to continue was the re-introduction of BPOs...mostly because of the SKIN. Im not necessarily advocating for BPOs, but I'd rather explore proper implementation of cosmetics as they have zero impact on the gameplay itself, but have been proven to be profitable.

I mean I know EVE is doing the whole Alpha/Omega clone thing, but that's really meant as a glorified demo.

I mean if cosmetics prove to be insufficient, then we can explore more invasive options....just...I dunno, I've been burned too many times by crappy "F2P" models that end up being more irritating than rewarding when it comes to paying to access content.

Talos Vagheitan wrote:

I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to.


Well....they did with Boosters. Was a really good way to get people to fork out cash monthly, worked for me for a long while.
Ancient Exiles.
#9 Posted: 2016.10.14 04:17  |  Edited by: Talos Vagheitan
Pokey Dravon wrote:
To be fair I didnt check the entire list of results so Im sure a handful of them in there are duds, my point being there is more than just a couple options out there.

I guess I just REALLY dislike the idea of buying into content like that for a game that is labled "Free to Play", even with an ISK option it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Lets not forget that largely what allowed the development of Dust to continue was the re-introduction of BPOs...mostly because of the SKIN. Im not necessarily advocating for BPOs, but I'd rather explore proper implementation of cosmetics as they have zero impact on the gameplay itself, but have been proven to be profitable.

I mean I know EVE is doing the whole Alpha/Omega clone thing, but that's really meant as a glorified demo.

I mean if cosmetics prove to be insufficient, then we can explore more invasive options....just...I dunno, I've been burned too many times by crappy "F2P" models that end up being more irritating than rewarding when it comes to paying to access content.

Talos Vagheitan wrote:

I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to.


Well....they did with Boosters. Was a really good way to get people to fork out cash monthly, worked for me for a long while.


They gotta get paid man. You may have bought boosters, and I started throwing some decent cash at them towards the end of the game, but not everyone was like that. A lot of players not only played entirely for free, but also proto-stomped a hell of a lot of new players (revenue) away from CCP.

The system was abused.

There has to be a compromise. I think what I proposed above is pretty good incentive to pay on a regular basis, without being too restrictive in the process.

EDIT-----

Also I have to point out, unless a game is developed by a charity organization, it can never really be free to play. There has to be a catch. ... Either it costs money to win, or costs money to play the second half of the game, or you have to watch advertisements, etc.

Dust is the only F2P game I've ever known that really didn't have any catch. The entire game was available for free, on sort of an "honor system" and unfortunately they probably suffered because of that.

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Rogue Clones
#10 Posted: 2016.10.14 05:34
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
Pokey Dravon wrote:
To be fair I didnt check the entire list of results so Im sure a handful of them in there are duds, my point being there is more than just a couple options out there.

I guess I just REALLY dislike the idea of buying into content like that for a game that is labled "Free to Play", even with an ISK option it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Lets not forget that largely what allowed the development of Dust to continue was the re-introduction of BPOs...mostly because of the SKIN. Im not necessarily advocating for BPOs, but I'd rather explore proper implementation of cosmetics as they have zero impact on the gameplay itself, but have been proven to be profitable.

I mean I know EVE is doing the whole Alpha/Omega clone thing, but that's really meant as a glorified demo.

I mean if cosmetics prove to be insufficient, then we can explore more invasive options....just...I dunno, I've been burned too many times by crappy "F2P" models that end up being more irritating than rewarding when it comes to paying to access content.

Talos Vagheitan wrote:

I think the F2P model Dust had was great, however a lot of players played for years without paying a dime... that's not great from a business standpoint. I'm just brainstorming for a way to encourage players to pay continuously, without being forced to.


Well....they did with Boosters. Was a really good way to get people to fork out cash monthly, worked for me for a long while.


They gotta get paid man. You may have bought boosters, and I started throwing some decent cash at them towards the end of the game, but not everyone was like that. A lot of players not only played entirely for free, but also proto-stomped a hell of a lot of new players (revenue) away from CCP.

The system was abused.

There has to be a compromise. I think what I proposed above is pretty good incentive to pay on a regular basis, without being too restrictive in the process.

EDIT-----

Also I have to point out, unless a game is developed by a charity organization, it can never really be free to play. There has to be a catch. ... Either it costs money to win, or costs money to play the second half of the game, or you have to watch advertisements, etc.

Dust is the only F2P game I've ever known that really didn't have any catch. The entire game was available for free, on sort of an "honor system" and unfortunately they probably suffered because of that.

I think the model CCP have with EvE now is worth a look at. An Alpha Clone can only train their own race's skills, weapons, ships, and only limited and slower at that.

To expand out from these limitations, one has to upgrade to an Omega Clone. And you have to do that every month or you go back to Alpha Clone status.

I think the same sort of thing would work in a FPS. Not having access to proto gear and alternate races would also stop protostomping by Alpha Clones.
OSG Planetary Operations
#11 Posted: 2016.10.14 05:36
If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game.

I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game.
Ancient Exiles.
#12 Posted: 2016.10.14 06:10  |  Edited by: Talos Vagheitan
Pokey Dravon wrote:
If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game.

I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game.



Well, with what I proposed the "free ride" is certainly still an option if that's what you choose, just earn 1M ISK and you're good to go (or pay the 1 measly dollar), or also just play pubs if that's what you want. I wouldn't feel restricted at all by this.

But did you look at those tiered License options I proposed? Those would look pretty tempting to me. And if you're going to pay $1, you may as well spring for the $5 option and those extra goodies... and if you're going to pay that, then... etc.


Remember too, Dust had a very, very 'lenient' F2P system, however this game was also largely funded off EVE profits for most of it's life. There's always a catch. A game can't "just be free".


Also, I'm not sure I agree with your attitude towards having a subscription-based FPS. To my knowledge that's never happened successfully. Why would Nova be different?

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Imperium Eden
#13 Posted: 2016.10.14 06:18
I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations.

Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec.

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Ancient Exiles.
#14 Posted: 2016.10.14 06:22
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations.

Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec.


Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1)


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Imperium Eden
#15 Posted: 2016.10.14 06:25
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations.

Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec.


Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1)



Sorry, I made the post late at night, I'm tired and not thinking clearly. To be honest I read the first two lines and came to a quick conclusion. I suppose your plan could work in theory.

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Ancient Exiles.
#16 Posted: 2016.10.14 06:28
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations.

Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec.


Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1)



Sorry, I made the post late at night, I'm tired and not thinking clearly. To be honest I read the first two lines and came to a quick conclusion. I suppose your plan could work in theory.


Lol. It's all good mate. Sleep on it ;)


Cheers.

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Imperium Eden
#17 Posted: 2016.10.14 06:30
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
Talos Vagheitan wrote:
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
I don't think we should limit people to certain areas of the game. Take EVE's Alpha Clones for example, if they wanted, they could still go into nullsec and fight for sovereignty with their respective corporations.

Not letting players go into fw/pc is the same thing as not letting Alpha Clones go into nullsec.


Note: I said in the original post players could buy this 'merc license' for 1M ISK if they wanted. You can grind that in a few matches (or just pay the $1)



Sorry, I made the post late at night, I'm tired and not thinking clearly. To be honest I read the first two lines and came to a quick conclusion. I suppose your plan could work in theory.


Lol. It's all good mate. Sleep on it ;)


Cheers.

Yep, not thinking clearly, gonna hit the sack, good night :D

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Rogue Clones
#18 Posted: 2016.10.14 06:38
Pokey Dravon wrote:
If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game.

I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game.

But they do that with EvE. PLEXes are bought and sold around New Eden all the time, and they are the way the vets mostly pay for their subscriptions. It works for CCP because people buy PLEXes from CCP to sell in game to raise funds. So CCP gets their money either way.
OSG Planetary Operations
#19 Posted: 2016.10.14 14:37  |  Edited by: Pokey Dravon
Alena Asakura wrote:
Pokey Dravon wrote:
If you're so insistent that no one get "a free ride" then just make it sub based and call it a day. Otherwise many people will always refuse to spend a cent on the game.

I'd rather have a sub than call it free to play but basically make it so you need to pay every month to enjoy the entire game. And if you offer an ISK option? People will simply use that instead and never spend a cent on the game.

But they do that with EvE. PLEXes are bought and sold around New Eden all the time, and they are the way the vets mostly pay for their subscriptions. It works for CCP because people buy PLEXes from CCP to sell in game to raise funds. So CCP gets their money either way.


True but those sell for about a billion ISK now...which takes more than a handful of matches worth of time. Even with Alpha Clones you can still go anywhere and participate with anyone, there is no lockout of facwar or anything of the sort and largely you can train everything that makes sense for a player starting out.

Do not confuse Alpha Clones as making EVE F2P. Alpha clones are simply a fancy way of saying "Un-timed demo" to give players a feel for EVE.

For Nova I'd take the million ISK option over then $1 every time. Not that a dollar is much to me, but I'd be annoyed by the fact that I'm being charged just so I can play a certain match type. Id go out of my way to make sure I didn't spend real money on it just to make a point. But again I have a personal vendetta against being nickle and dimed to death just to get core gameplay features. It is absolutely the fastest way to turn me off from playing a game.
Immortal Guides
#20 Posted: 2016.10.14 15:42  |  Edited by: Fox Gaden
I actually like it.

If you buy an Officer License you should get a "Supporter" tag on your forum avatar to show you are financially supporting the game.


Also, if people can buy the licenses and sell them on the open market for ISK, then CCP has the people with money in real life paying for the people who only have money in game. The 40 year old with a good job who dies too much to afford Proto suits can buy Mercenary Licenses and sell them on the open market to the 13 year old who is rocking in PC but does not have a credit card.

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