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Will there be a cpm summit?

Author
warravens
Imperium Eden
#1 Posted: 2015.12.28 03:02
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/csm-x-summit-i-day-one-meeting-minutes/

Minutes released to the general population would put many a tad less on edge like they do on CSM side. Thoughts or reasoning as to why this hasn't happened?

The butthurt is strong

#kisstheringmh

Random Gunz
#2 Posted: 2015.12.28 04:53
The CPM don't really get a summit. We communicate with the devs every day, but hardly ever face to face, usually through Skype and slack. If it is face to face, it's a conference call.

The closest the CPM gets to a summit is Fanfest, but then it's not really so much a meeting as it is a get together. (from what I've heard)

But all that aside, we have told the community everything we can. We cannot make them any less on edge, because the whole situation is a mess.

It's not a very happy thing to say, but that's because we aren't happy at all. We just have to wait for CCP to make a move.

Fanfest Ghost Status Achieved

Why does everyone fellatiate darth?! -Aeon Amadi

DUST University
#3 Posted: 2015.12.28 09:02
Pretty much what Darth said.

We don't get a summit and tel, you guys as much as we can, as soon as we can. We just haven't been as active in the forums for the last few weeks for a couple of reasons.

Some of us are busy in real life being the main one and CCP being in vacation mode at the moment with the festive period. But there's also not really much more we can add to the discussion until CCP opens the information taps. Once that happens you'll get sick of us posting stuff. Smile

CPM 1&2 Member

CEO of DUST University

Corrosive Synergy
RUST415
#4 Posted: 2015.12.28 17:53
Kevall Longstride wrote:
Pretty much what Darth said.

We don't get a summit and tel, you guys as much as we can, as soon as we can. We just haven't been as active in the forums for the last few weeks for a couple of reasons.

Some of us are busy in real life being the main one and CCP being in vacation mode at the moment with the festive period. But there's also not really much more we can add to the discussion until CCP opens the information taps. Once that happens you'll get sick of us posting stuff. Smile

About how long is this festive period, and how long until we can expect more communication, both from you CPM and the Devs? And I don't mean communication in the 'we want a port naow' sense, but just in the 'hey guys, we're still around, no worries' sense.

The thought that Dust 514 may one day be the game we dreamed it to be.

It fills you with Determination!

#5 Posted: 2015.12.29 22:17
Kevall Longstride wrote:
Pretty much what Darth said.

We don't get a summit and tel, you guys as much as we can, as soon as we can. We just haven't been as active in the forums for the last few weeks for a couple of reasons.

Some of us are busy in real life being the main one and CCP being in vacation mode at the moment with the festive period. But there's also not really much more we can add to the discussion until CCP opens the information taps. Once that happens you'll get sick of us posting stuff. Smile


What is the point of you then?
Random Gunz
#6 Posted: 2015.12.29 22:37
Our job is to communicate the will and desires of the community to CCP, and advise them on how to best serve the people that play this game.

We have done our job hundreds of times over, telling CCP what they did right, and what they are now doing very wrong. We will continue to do that, even though sometimes they just don't want to hear it.

In the end, the job is not always fun or even enjoyable, but please, never doubt that we have done what we were elected to do.

Fanfest Ghost Status Achieved

Why does everyone fellatiate darth?! -Aeon Amadi

Chickenhawk.
#7 Posted: 2016.01.12 22:15
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:
Our job is to communicate the will and desires of the community to CCP, and advise them on how to best serve the people that play this game.

We have done our job hundreds of times over, telling CCP what they did right, and what they are now doing very wrong. We will continue to do that, even though sometimes they just don't want to hear it.

In the end, the job is not always fun or even enjoyable, but please, never doubt that we have done what we were elected to do.


Speaking as a long time EVE player, CSM members have been canned for the low level of interaction displayed between CPM and the playerbase. CSM members regularly post podcasts / youtubes, interact on Reddit & the forums, show up to player-driven events, hold CSM town-hall events on voice comms where a CSM member moderates and players can ask questions of CSM reps, etc. This interaction is rarely about "What CCP's direction is" or communicating player feedback to CCP. That's just the day-to-day job. The interaction outside of that is the CSM members doing the larger job of directly interacting with the community instead of lurking in the shadows until there's a dev post to talk about.

So, sorry to call you on the carpet on this, but that's a load of crap. Get involved already.
Random Gunz
#8 Posted: 2016.01.13 17:40
There are fundamental differences between Dust and Eve, most glaringly obvious, some more covert. To compare the two would be a stretch, much less compare the CPM to the CSM because that's just insulting.

Ours is a very small, and still fledgling community, especially compared to a decade long juggernaut like eve. Podcasts, forums, reddit, youtube, voice chat; we've done it all but on a scale that reflects our playerbase.

Your message is a good one, and we appreciate the feedback, but please compare apples to apples and know that we are not the CSM, nor do we want to be.

Fanfest Ghost Status Achieved

Why does everyone fellatiate darth?! -Aeon Amadi

Chickenhawk.
#9 Posted: 2016.01.13 18:03
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:
There are fundamental differences between Dust and Eve, most glaringly obvious, some more covert. To compare the two would be a stretch, much less compare the CPM to the CSM because that's just insulting.

Ours is a very small, and still fledgling community, especially compared to a decade long juggernaut like eve. Podcasts, forums, reddit, youtube, voice chat; we've done it all but on a scale that reflects our playerbase.

Your message is a good one, and we appreciate the feedback, but please compare apples to apples and know that we are not the CSM, nor do we want to be.


Well in case you haven't heard the feedback before, and regardless of what you want the CPM to be, know that they do a much better job of making the average grunt feel included, heard, and communicated with than the CPM. You can not want to be the CSM all you want, but flagrantly ignoring areas where they're successful and you're not just to "be different" is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Interacting with the community outside of this narrow forum channel is a pretty basic way to build PR and improve morale. It's also free and doesn't take much time to make an impact. Maybe something to think about.
Random Gunz
#10 Posted: 2016.01.13 20:34
It's your own opinion and you are entitled to it, just as I'm entitled to strongly disagree.

You can say we aren't doing a good job, and that's fine. I would say that we are, and that to emulate the institution that has become synonymous with corruption, security breaches and infighting would be the hight of folly.

Both flavors exist, and we are lucky enough to be able to choose which one suits our taste. We are not likely to convince one another that our way is the best, and that's OK, because we don't have to.

Fanfest Ghost Status Achieved

Why does everyone fellatiate darth?! -Aeon Amadi

#11 Posted: 2016.01.14 15:01
I am known for not being the most positive but mostly because I sight hard truths that are hidden or masked. In any case, even though it does appear CCP has abandoned DUST and its players for now (hopefully in just the short term), it is good to see a CPM step up. Past CPMs have been pointed out for (at least seemingly) doing nothing. At least there is one obviously doing something now even if it is just simply posting on the forums in CCP's absence.

I don't troll; I tell the truth.

I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".

Chickenhawk.
#12 Posted: 2016.01.14 16:44
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:
the institution that has become synonymous with corruption, security breaches and infighting would be the hight of folly.


A) You're talking about a very small minority of CSM members, not the whole.
B) I fail to see how interacting with players in a general way has anything to do with "corruption, security breaches and infighting".

I do agree that we probably won't see this the same, since the Ivory Tower mentality of the CPM does far far more to detract from the success of the DUST community than ANY of the breaches of the CSM ever could. Keep thinking you're on the moral high ground while the boat sinks, I guess, and for making it clear who doesn't have the players interests in mind in their appointment. o7
Incorruptibles
#13 Posted: 2016.01.14 18:36  |  Edited by: Ripley Riley
Just going to throw out that CCP is not obligated to take CPM's advise. For example, CPM2 can spend a half hour every single meeting telling CCP to talk to us... CCP can tactfully tell them to **** off and opt not to do so.
#14 Posted: 2016.01.14 19:39
I'd argue that the CPM is not doing a poor job at all, and that they have performed admirably in a terrible situation.

As to prior comments about poor CPM communication outside of their own comm channels and skype, I would counter with the fact that DUST simply has a smaller community than EVE and there are factually less third party avenues for them to appear in. There are no as many DUST podcasts compared to EVE, and fewer channels for them to communicate on.

Not to mention they are still restricted in talking about DUST based on various NDAs and other factors that tie their hands, especially if they wish to avoid any accidental information leaks. Simply said, they cannot speak on what CCP does not wish them to speak of, and DUST has given NOTHING to say in about half a year, were as EVE has already shared vague plans of the future (Citadels, evolving storyline, etc) that the CSM can speak about, albeit in a cryptic non-answer sort of way, or at least support and talk about hypotheticals.

Also, might I mention that for all the "lack of CPM communication" you are complaining about, you are speaking to a CPM member in this thread, and that they are actively responding to multiple threads?

"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati

Chickenhawk.
#15 Posted: 2016.01.14 20:11  |  Edited by: Llamastar
Avallo Kantor wrote:
Not to mention they are still restricted in talking about DUST based on various NDAs and other factors that tie their hands, especially if they wish to avoid any accidental information leaks.


CSM Members are under the same NDA, and manage to post daily about their own thoughts and opinions, as well as ask for clarity around popular player generated ideas and requests. That's not breaking NDA, and a CSM/CPM Member is in no way shape or form discouraged from talking about their own personal gameplay, thoughts, and opinions. The NDA isn't a gag order. It's a limitation on talking about confidential information specifically. Stop using it as a blanket justification for low engagement, please.

I won't belabor the point, but to reiterate: I was comparing apples and apples. CSM Member engagement v CPM Member engagement, with the community, specifically. You point out accurately that there aren't as many broad channels of engagements. Yet you list off the prime examples of channels that do exist. I'm merely pointing out that there's opportunity to engage in a completely non-illicit way that's not being taken advantage of. That's all.

That being said you're welcome to your opinion that a good job is being done. Personally, I don't see it. Maybe that opinion will change over time, but at the moment I just see a stark and unfortunate contrast between CPM and it's ancestral body.

I also am amazed at the platform-self-loathing implied by a complete unwillingness to being compared or contrasted to the EVE CSM, as if the two games weren't irreversibly intertwined at all levels ( Lore, races, basic gameplay concepts, and day to day real granular impact ). Imho DUST should have at least one representative on the CSM to champion inter-game related features, and say what's working and what's not. Vice versa an EVE representative in the CPM to talk about DUST impacts on FW, etc. Perhaps a pipe dream but it seems like a not-unreasonable idea. I can tell you frankly that the vast majority of EVE players have not the first clue of what DUST players actually do, or for example that DUST FW has any direct consequences in the EVE state of FW affairs at all. This is not talked about, discussed, or widely known; even in FW discussions. If there was wider understanding of the impact that the grunts had on the sandbox, it could go a long way towards getting influential entities to try to leverage that. A CSM DUST player talking about these topics is a PR opportunity at the very least.

Who knows if there's opportunity for any of that. I along with everyone else am waiting for some big announcement regarding the future of the platform, and what the future holds for two very good games with two player bases in different states of angst. I personally am hoping there's big things ahead for the next major iteration, because this is a great game that needs to keep getting bigger and stronger.
#16 Posted: 2016.01.14 21:47
Llamastar wrote:
Avallo Kantor wrote:
Not to mention they are still restricted in talking about DUST based on various NDAs and other factors that tie their hands, especially if they wish to avoid any accidental information leaks.


CSM Members are under the same NDA, and manage to post daily about their own thoughts and opinions, as well as ask for clarity around popular player generated ideas and requests. That's not breaking NDA, and a CSM/CPM Member is in no way shape or form discouraged from talking about their own personal gameplay, thoughts, and opinions. The NDA isn't a gag order. It's a limitation on talking about confidential information specifically. Stop using it as a blanket justification for low engagement, please.

I won't belabor the point, but to reiterate: I was comparing apples and apples. CSM Member engagement v CPM Member engagement, with the community, specifically. You point out accurately that there aren't as many broad channels of engagements. Yet you list off the prime examples of channels that do exist. I'm merely pointing out that there's opportunity to engage in a completely non-illicit way that's not being taken advantage of. That's all.

That being said you're welcome to your opinion that a good job is being done. Personally, I don't see it. Maybe that opinion will change over time, but at the moment I just see a stark and unfortunate contrast between CPM and it's ancestral body.

I also am amazed at the platform-self-loathing implied by a complete unwillingness to being compared or contrasted to the EVE CSM, as if the two games weren't irreversibly intertwined at all levels ( Lore, races, basic gameplay concepts, and day to day real granular impact ). Imho DUST should have at least one representative on the CSM to champion inter-game related features, and say what's working and what's not. Vice versa an EVE representative in the CPM to talk about DUST impacts on FW, etc. Perhaps a pipe dream but it seems like a not-unreasonable idea. I can tell you frankly that the vast majority of EVE players have not the first clue of what DUST players actually do, or for example that DUST FW has any direct consequences in the EVE state of FW affairs at all. This is not talked about, discussed, or widely known; even in FW discussions. If there was wider understanding of the impact that the grunts had on the sandbox, it could go a long way towards getting influential entities to try to leverage that. A CSM DUST player talking about these topics is a PR opportunity at the very least.

Who knows if there's opportunity for any of that. I along with everyone else am waiting for some big announcement regarding the future of the platform, and what the future holds for two very good games with two player bases in different states of angst. I personally am hoping there's big things ahead for the next major iteration, because this is a great game that needs to keep getting bigger and stronger.


I completely understand where you are coming from, but I would counterpoint on the matter of discussion that a lot of it has died down.

Honestly speaking these six months of silence, regardless of what CCP's intentions are, has put more than a few buckets of cold water on the enthusiasm of the community, and a lot of discussion has died down as good bits of the more active community has went into hibernation or left. Not that I am claiming the game is dying, it's just in a ... recess.

This has impacted the CPM as well, and I can report than when there was more excitement and discussion the CPM was highly involved in discussions, starting numerous threads on the topics themselves, and being -very- proactive in looking out for player feedback, and understanding the reasons for that feedback.

The long term silence however has stifled that, and likely behind the scenes caused a shift in CPM focus from getting players to talk to CCP to getting CCP to talk to players. Because of that, CPM is likely spending a good bit of their resources (which they have a limited amount of due to this being charity work) working directly with CCP on our behalf. Sadly we can't know what that feedback is, and it may well just be falling on deaf ears.

As to Darth's earlier statements, the CSM has had an extremely spotty past with numerous incidents marring it's record over the years. For many long time EVE players that is a lasting mark on the CSM that many think on when thinking of them, and it's understandable that Darth has both pride that CPM has not had similar screwups and indignation they are being compared unfairly to an organization that has caused so much turmoil in the past.

"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati

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