The Council’s Chamber

 
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CPMS, really, why did you let the new event item be so crappy!?

Author
Eternal Beings
#1 Posted: 2015.11.28 08:20  |  Edited by: Heracles Porsche
45hp per second? 10m range? I hope that you seeing that this item is called the council's whatever with these garbage stats is a subtle insult to you all.

So... your telling me this thing has the stats of a BASIC REPAIR TOOL and I'm supposed to get excited because this thing can rep 3 people? With a 10m range beam, how am I supposed to give a good god awful crap that it can hit 3 people? Even with minrep bonus this things stats mean it's really godawful. I'm really really really not impressed with a rep tool that can hit 3 people in a tiny radius with garbage rep strength. Really.

also INB4 welll it's a bpo so balance argument. You guys have managed a good BPO with the 5 million clone challenge, you should have been able to repeat that performance. This is an item that should be special and worthwhile to celebrate logis. With it's current stats, it simply isn't.I don't know how you could not know that. Even if you'd left the crappy rep strength and just extended the beam range, I would have accepted that. You couldn't even manage that. Please don't use the word balance in your arguments, I will cry in my soup.

I want every single CPM to respond please. Tell me, each, individually, how you were able to hear about an item with stats this crappy and just sit back and let CCP throw us this crap. Letting them give us an event that a big portion of the playerbase has been asking for ever since this game came out, only to let it's reward be absolute garbage? Your gonna have to explain that to me.

I was really trying to keep my normal optimism I've sustained for this game. If you watch my video Heracles Speaks 12, I was trying so hard to sustain my optimism. But something that should have honoured the playerbase, has, instead, just turned into the latest in a long line of things to happen in Dust 514 that are telling us we should be happy with garbage.

Don't **** in my ear and tell me it's repping.

Okay now that I got that out of my system, I'm much calmer now. In fact, I almost decided not to post this rant... Almost. But I already typed it out so there. I think I made some good points.

That is all.

Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche

OSG Planetary Operations
#2 Posted: 2015.11.28 09:18  |  Edited by: Cross Atu
I have no arguments. And I do care about balance which factors heavily into any response I give.
Since I'm not supposed to talk about the balance of items (even free event BPO items) I'm not sure what else to say.

My stance is and has always been there should be no BPO above STD level and I still believe that.
I also believe all STD items should be available on the market in BPO form.
^Both of these are in part because of that whole balance thing.

Yeah, I guess I just want saltier soup.

I do have one other element to highlight from your post
Quote:
just sit back and let CCP

If you think that the CPM is in any way ever in a position to "let" or "not let" CCP do anything you have fundamentally misunderstood the nature of the CPM. We have exactly zero executive power of any kind, we respond to questions when asked and we provide CCP with (primarily community) feedback and ideas, then they - the Developers - make choices about what is or is not done within the game. The CPM is an advisory body, not legislative or executive.
Eternal Beings
#3 Posted: 2015.11.28 11:06  |  Edited by: Heracles Porsche
Yep you have no arguments and thankyou for admitting it. And for the rest as well. You just openly admitted, that, in your position as CPM, you are both indifferent to the plight of the playerbase, as well as powerless to actually help the playerbase as well.

If this is who are are as a CPM, resign, and do something better with your life.

Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche

OSG Planetary Operations
#4 Posted: 2015.11.28 16:23
Heracles Porsche wrote:
Yep you have no arguments and thankyou for admitting it. And for the rest as well. You just openly admitted, that, in your position as CPM, you are both indifferent to the plight of the playerbase, as well as powerless to actually help the playerbase as well.

If this is who are are as a CPM, resign, and do something better with your life.


Oh good lord really? Plight of the playerbase because you don't like the stats of a event item? Talk about melodramatic. Sit down, ice your groin, and chill the hell out.

Are the stats of the item a little underwelming? Yea Ill agree wtih that. But flipping out over it and going on an angry rant is EXACTLY the kind of **** that makes CCP not want to even bother with the playerbase.

So if you can't provide quality, rational feedback that isn't emotionally charged, perhaps you should consider doing something better with your life.

I expected better from you. What a disappointment.
Eternal Beings
#5 Posted: 2015.11.28 19:24
Pokey Dravon wrote:
[quote=Heracles Porsche]

1.So if you can't provide quality, rational feedback that isn't emotionally charged, perhaps you should consider doing something better with your life.

2. I expected better from you. What a disappointment.



@ number 1. I'm a passionatte person and I give impassioned speeches.

@ number 2. Don't lie, no you didn't.


Anyways, What i just heard (not confirmed yet). Is that the item is being recalled to fix a bug, AND AND the rep beam is being extended. And I'm counting that stat change as a Victory.

Yes my bitching has already been vindicated. Chalk up another Heracles Porsche win.

Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche

Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
#6 Posted: 2015.11.28 20:09
Heracles Porsche wrote:

Anyways, What i just heard (not confirmed yet). Is that the item is being recalled to fix a bug, AND AND the rep beam is being extended. And I'm counting that stat change as a Victory.



that stat change was announced before you started this rant post. you don't get to claim a goddamn thing.

Grow up.

Yes, I am a Goon. No, I don't care about your spacepolitik.

Eternal Beings
#7 Posted: 2015.11.28 20:24
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Heracles Porsche wrote:

Anyways, What i just heard (not confirmed yet). Is that the item is being recalled to fix a bug, AND AND the rep beam is being extended. And I'm counting that stat change as a Victory.



1.that stat change was announced before you started this rant post. you don't get to claim a goddamn thing.

2.Grow up.


1. Link?

2.No

Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche

OSG Planetary Operations
#8 Posted: 2015.11.28 20:58  |  Edited by: Cross Atu
Heracles Porsche wrote:
Yep you have no arguments and thankyou for admitting it. And for the rest as well. You just openly admitted, that, in your position as CPM, you are both indifferent to the plight of the playerbase, as well as powerless to actually help the playerbase as well.

If this is who are are as a CPM, resign, and do something better with your life.

Yep, because there is no argument to be made.
Only the obvious, accurate, and key statement that balance matters.

If you don't believe balance in a game is relevant then you have no real place in a balance discussion, which is any discussion that contains items or aspects which are not 100% cosmetic.

A prime example of important balance considerations are EoM rewards, fittings resources, and BPOs.

I'd be a very poor player rep if endorsed FotM, disregarded balance, or otherwise had no care for the longevity of the game.

The CPM is and has always been an advisory group, this has been stated from the outset if "cannot command the Devs and force them to do my bidding" is how you define "powerless" then sure every person who interacts with any corporation in whatever sector of business throughout the world is "powerless" and I'm no unique and special snowflake in that regard P

As for "indifferent" if you define "spending my minimal free time outside of Uni et al doing unpaid volunteer work on behalf of the community" then yeah, that fits too.

I make a point of being diplomatic, I believe in being constructive, and I try to consider all feedback that's intent and structure is to improve the survival and enjoy-ability of the game in the long term. As such I've looked for that in this thread, and I must admit I'm having trouble figuring out how this thread acts to support those goals. Are you able to detail the specifics of how the OP accomplishes any of those goals? And if not what the specific details of the goals of the OP actually are.
OSG Planetary Operations
#9 Posted: 2015.11.28 21:38  |  Edited by: Pokey Dravon
Heracles Porsche wrote:

Anyways, What i just heard (not confirmed yet). Is that the item is being recalled to fix a bug, AND AND the rep beam is being extended. And I'm counting that stat change as a Victory.

Yes my bitching has already been vindicated. Chalk up another Heracles Porsche win.


Here you go cupcake

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3041961#post3041961

Timestamp: Posted: 2015.11.27 12:01

Your Post Timestamp: Posted: 2015.11.28 08:20

Your original post was many hours AFTER Frame posted that the range was being increased by 20%. So no, you didn't cause jack **** to happen. So sit down and shut up before you look like more of a fool.
Eternal Beings
#10 Posted: 2015.11.28 21:57
Pokey Dravon wrote:
[quote=Heracles Porsche]
So sit down and shut up before you look like more of a fool.


I will not agree to that.

Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche

#11 Posted: 2015.11.29 13:45
Lot of anger and tension in here so I'll try to approach this calmly. Bear in mind, these are just my standpoints and opinions. The other CPM representatives may disagree.

The Council Repair Tool is a BPO and whenever BPOs are introduced to the game they need be given a scrutinizing eye. They are quite powerful because of their costless permanence and some players believe that they should never be too powerful because of that permanence. BPOs always introduce a level of powercreep into the game because of the gradual change in buying power that is affected by their presence. To elaborate more specifically, the Krin's is an excellent example of the power creep I'm referring to. There is little to no reason to ever buy standard ISK variant damage modifiers if you have this BPO. Further more, this single BPO invalidated three other BPOs (militia damage mods) that players had already purchased.

We have to seriously consider these things when looking at the potential power of a new BPO. Consider that the Council Repair Tool is a Standard BPO with stats and functionality that exceeds typical standard Repair Tools. It has three beams, which is better than any other repair tool in the game (proto included). It has longer range than the Standard repair tool as well. All of that in a permanent BPO means that you'll never have to purchase a standard ISK variant Repair Tool again and if you had a Militia Repair Tool BPO prior to this, you pretty much just wasted your money on it (unless you intend to trade it).

It is important that we do not easily dismiss this sort of effect because it will make things much harder for us in the future. If we decide to change repair tools for any reason in the future, this will surely need to be considered. However, we must also consider that there are a number of players who have already invested aurum into BPOs that are now in vain because of that. If there is a logical, founded reason why this (or any) BPO should be considered an exception to this core principle, then it may certainly be considered for future iterations.

(Former) CPM2 Representative for Dust 514 and Project Nova

Eternal Beings
#12 Posted: 2015.11.29 15:02  |  Edited by: Heracles Porsche
When I arrived here, I flang some poop. And some poop was flung back at me. And we got into pretty epic poop flinging contest. I was legit angry when I threw that first piece of poop, and more happy/trolly as the match continued. And I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't thoroughly enjoy the whole process.

But now, despite the amount of poop that everybody has flung, and is now covered in, and despite my dire warnings that I would fling poop at whoever mentioned balance, Aeon Amadi has arrived to talk to me like an adult. And now, despite my warnings... I feel slightly less inclined to keep flinging poop. I hope I don't bore myself.

The item in question is called the Council's Modified Repair Tool. Because it had that name, I assigned it a lot of emotional value to it. It was not just any present. It was to be a symbol, not only of what the CPM could accomplish, but of what logistics players deserved. And thusly, in my mind, it should have been badass.

In order to allow myself to talk about it rationally in the way in which you all want me to, I'll have to call it something else. For the purposes of this discussion, let's just start calling it "The Toy".

The Toy has been a let down for various reasons. But I will confess to setting it against a relatively high set of standards. I firmly beleive that a logisitics player who knows what he is doing should never have any reason to run anything weaker then a prototype repair tool. I just don't ever slap on anything weaker then that, even on my blueprint shaman logi.

However, despite what I've said, I do know balance is important in the game, and so, despite how strongly I feel about running anything weaker then a prototype repair tool, I tried to move the measuring stick to a much more meager place. This place was simple. The place was "how good would the toy have to be in order for me to be able to enjoy it's novelty for an hour or so". And after having lowered the bar to those levels, I was fairly sure that the body that makes up the CPM would be able to satisfy me. I did have that kind of faith in you.

The first, and my main issue with The Toy was it's repair length. 20m is what's I'm used to on my Republic Boundless Repair Tool. To me, 10m is pathetic, especially for a rep tool that you want locking onto multiple players. However, I have in fact heard that CCP Frame intends to buff this a 12m range, which, does in fact place The Toy inside just barely inside my margin of what I consider to be acceptable. I still firmly beleive that more rep length = MORE FUN, so I can finish making my point by making that observation.

And I'm sorry to have to introduce a new issue, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention this. The toy has been bugged with various issues causing it to disappear from player's inventories. I won't go into all of them, but as I'm sure you're aware ,The Toy is now missing from all player inventories. This is going to be more of a frustration for the playerbase as a whole than for myself, but as stated, I would have been remiss not to mention that.

I am calm at this moment. Because I am a seasoned vet this game, I do in fact know that right now that the issue, my issue, the playerbase's issue, is being worked on right now. And it's shame the remaning playerbase didn't get a fun and functional Toy with the event as we expected to get, but like I said I do know things will pan out eventually. I can be calm, and do hope I don't come across as overly conceited as I make my final statements here.

1. I've offered you a lesson in how another human being's measuring stick might be different then your own.
2. How to make more fun toys.

Having made all the points which I need to, my impulses related poop flinging appear to have vanished. I hope you all have a pleasant day.

Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche

#13 Posted: 2015.11.29 23:43
Heracles Porsche wrote:
When I arrived here, I flang some poop. And some poop was flung back at me. And we got into pretty epic poop flinging contest. I was legit angry when I threw that first piece of poop, and more happy/trolly as the match continued. And I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't thoroughly enjoy the whole process.

But now, despite the amount of poop that everybody has flung, and is now covered in, and despite my dire warnings that I would fling poop at whoever mentioned balance, Aeon Amadi has arrived to talk to me like an adult. And now, despite my warnings... I feel slightly less inclined to keep flinging poop. I hope I don't bore myself.

The item in question is called the Council's Modified Repair Tool. Because it had that name, I assigned it a lot of emotional value to it. It was not just any present. It was to be a symbol, not only of what the CPM could accomplish, but of what logistics players deserved. And thusly, in my mind, it should have been badass.

In order to allow myself to talk about it rationally in the way in which you all want me to, I'll have to call it something else. For the purposes of this discussion, let's just start calling it "The Toy".

The Toy has been a let down for various reasons. But I will confess to setting it against a relatively high set of standards. I firmly beleive that a logisitics player who knows what he is doing should never have any reason to run anything weaker then a prototype repair tool. I just don't ever slap on anything weaker then that, even on my blueprint shaman logi.

However, despite what I've said, I do know balance is important in the game, and so, despite how strongly I feel about running anything weaker then a prototype repair tool, I tried to move the measuring stick to a much more meager place. This place was simple. The place was "how good would the toy have to be in order for me to be able to enjoy it's novelty for an hour or so". And after having lowered the bar to those levels, I was fairly sure that the body that makes up the CPM would be able to satisfy me. I did have that kind of faith in you.

The first, and my main issue with The Toy was it's repair length. 20m is what's I'm used to on my Republic Boundless Repair Tool. To me, 10m is pathetic, especially for a rep tool that you want locking onto multiple players. However, I have in fact heard that CCP Frame intends to buff this a 12m range, which, does in fact place The Toy inside just barely inside my margin of what I consider to be acceptable. I still firmly beleive that more rep length = MORE FUN, so I can finish making my point by making that observation.

And I'm sorry to have to introduce a new issue, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention this. The toy has been bugged with various issues causing it to disappear from player's inventories. I won't go into all of them, but as I'm sure you're aware ,The Toy is now missing from all player inventories. This is going to be more of a frustration for the playerbase as a whole than for myself, but as stated, I would have been remiss not to mention that.

I am calm at this moment. Because I am a seasoned vet this game, I do in fact know that right now that the issue, my issue, the playerbase's issue, is being worked on right now. And it's shame the remaning playerbase didn't get a fun and functional Toy with the event as we expected to get, but like I said I do know things will pan out eventually. I can be calm, and do hope I don't come across as overly conceited as I make my final statements here.

1. I've offered you a lesson in how another human being's measuring stick might be different then your own.
2. How to make more fun toys.

Having made all the points which I need to, my impulses related poop flinging appear to have vanished. I hope you all have a pleasant day.


Understandable. The Council Repair Tool (or 'toy', as it were) was slated to be a bit better than it was. As Darth-Carbonite stated here, the Council Repair Tool was originally intended to be quite unique but a technical barrier became known and we had to settle for what we had, much to our disappointment.

I hope that helps to answer your concerns and offer some perspective. I know it is easy to be frustrated when we don't have all the information. That is why I'm a strong believer that greater degrees of transparency are the best measure to reducing community tension.

If you have any concerns feel free to hit us up. We may get frustrated at times but we're usually all quite welcoming of constructive criticism ^_^

(Former) CPM2 Representative for Dust 514 and Project Nova

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