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Profile Dampener theorizing

Author
#1 Posted: 2013.11.16 22:32
I've been working on a new entry for my blog which discusses about the equipment and weapons we use, and after a while I started thinking about profile dampeners. How do profile dampeners actually dampen your profile signature? I was hoping a dev might respond and shed some light to this, but even if not I'd be interested to know your suggestions on how they work.

Before that though, we'd have to know how scanning works, and why does dampening your profile help in the first place. That's where the description of Active Scanners come to help.

Active Scanner wrote:
Sending out a triggered pulse of high-frequency magnetometric waves and interpreting the results with an uplinked onboard computer, the Active Scanner gives ground units a snapshot of enemy positions. Projection nodes set at specific angles on the hand-held device, generate a vectored impulse capable of extracting objects from high-noise environments. Feedback from the pulse is filtered to reduce ambient clutter and pinpoint targets lacking IFF signals.

Reading this, and the fact that your profile signature is measured in dB, aka. desibel, which measures sound volume tells that active and passive scanning are dependent on sound to work, and that our dropsuits send out an electromagnetic field, probably due to the shield systems installed. Since the description says that an active scanner sends out magnetometric waves to find targets, we can say that the generator responsible for keeping your shields alive is also the reason you are shown in TACNET, the electromagnetic field it generates is what these scanners pick out. Maybe these generators also send out a low noise which is directly linked to the profile signature you are creating. The larger the frame, the bigger field your shield generator has to make, which leads to more noise and a bigger profile signature.

So how do profile dampeners lessen this effect? Looking at the Scout suit description gives us some hints:

Scout wrote:
The Scout dropsuit is a lightweight suit optimized for enhanced mobility, multi-spectrum stealth, and heightened awareness. Augmented joint servo motors give every movement extra speed and flexibility, while integrated friction and impact dampening materials reduce the overall sound signature.

This high-tech suit is coated in adaptive camouflage, a thin layer of bio-hermetic membranes interwoven with microscopic optical sensors that control millions of individual pigment ferro-crystals. An integrated AI-53 "All Eyes" sensor system wraps around the inside of the helmet, which also includes a chemically scrubbed atmospheric filtration system.

Reading this, the way how profile signature is reduced is done by special materials that reduce noise frlm friction and impacts, and by covering the suit in a thin layer of adaptive camouflage, which utilizes bio-hermetic membranes and tiny optical sensors to control ferro crystals.

I'd think that how a profile dampener works is that it's a module that affects the entire magnetic field surrounding your body, and the generator that creates it. With the tiny ferro-crystals being controlled by optical sensors, a profile dampener would improve these sensors to control the ferro-crystals better, which would reduce the amount of noise the electromagnetic field generates, and thus reduce your profile signature.

What do you think? Am I completely off the track or am I onto something? Feel free to comment your own suggestions, and tell your own opinion about mine! Again, a dev response would be greatly appreciated!
Altyr Initiative
#2 Posted: 2013.11.16 22:59
I've wondered about this but never thought on it too much to wonder the specifics. I only got as far as it would reduce the electromagnetic signature. I'm still wondering why suits make the same amount of noise moving as opposed to standing still but that may be for another day.

Active Scanner wrote:
The Active Scanner gives ground units a snapshot of enemy position.


Yet despite this it tags the suit in such a way that you can continue to see them even after the completed scan. What specifically does it tag on the suit that connects it to your TACNET resulting in the prolonged connection? Does the scanner's pulse somehow tag the suit's IFF signature and link it to your suit's TACNET?

Author of Umbra's Short Stories

Sisters of EVE Initiate.

#3 Posted: 2013.11.17 21:43
No one else can bring in any suggestions? :(
ISRAELITE SCHOOL of UNIVERSAL PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE
#4 Posted: 2013.11.22 10:05  |  Edited by: JDEZ09
Considering that there is a crystalline structure that absorbs the signals coming from the scanner, I would have to agree that your idea makes some good sense.

For the scanners that can get through, and remain, however maybe that has to do something with it's ability to hone in on the certain properties of these crystals. Since every suit has these to some degree, then maybe the scanner is sensitive enough to pick up these signals but then again how do you figure out how long it will last in there?

What if the magnetic waves from the scanner act sort of like light does. Since light is both electric and magnetic, it passes through objects like Glass or Diamond. But when it passes through it will slow down depending on the material. This is determined by the refractive index of that material. For example, Light passes through glass, but is slowed down in it's new media of travel. Diamond can slow down the speed of light by about 2.43 it's normal speed. Shocked

Since the scanner's waves are more like magnetism in property, then it could be possible to assume that something about that causes it to stay around in the shields much longer than other objects. Maybe it tends to like the shields and future-tech armor with depositions of dense crystals on the surface. Possibly because these future materials have far more complex structures in the nano and pico range. 10^-9 meters - 10^-12 meters

So the density of the material may cause the magnetic waves in the scanner to stay in the particles of the dropsuit much longer.

And what of dampeners?

Well, I'm no master physicist. But I do think that frequency determines the overall strength of the signal. If you could change the frequency of the oncoming scanner wave, to where it speeds up the process that the waves undergo as it travels through the atoms of the crystals, than maybe you could streamline it's pass through your suit to the point where the scanner cannot detect a change in the types of mediums that it's designed to pick up.

Which is maybe why the scanners say "No margin of error" when they don't pick up any enemy dropsuits. Because maybe the scanner calculates the changes in speed that the waves undergo as it passes through mediums like shield technology. Like an electromagnetic camouflage.

Or maybe it could just absorb ALL of it like the stealth fighter planes do today to radar signals, using materials like carbon nanotubes. These are very similar to diamonds in a lot of ways. In fact, carbon nanotubes would probably be the most viable way to make this type of armor while keeping the suit as light as possible. It's 100x stronger than steel, but only a third of it's weight.
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
#5 Posted: 2013.12.01 02:42
this all sounds really sciencey... too sciencey for me. but glad to have an idea of how stuff works or would work.

ps. A really great idea is that you can explain the equipment in dust as a thing, kind of like a show, and after a week or so you can put them in a arcieve. i think u should do the scrambler rifle next.

"We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste

Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
#6 Posted: 2013.12.01 03:25
JDEZ09 wrote:
Considering that there is a crystalline structure that absorbs the signals coming from the scanner, I would have to agree that your idea makes some good sense.

For the scanners that can get through, and remain, however maybe that has to do something with it's ability to hone in on the certain properties of these crystals. Since every suit has these to some degree, then maybe the scanner is sensitive enough to pick up these signals but then again how do you figure out how long it will last in there?

What if the magnetic waves from the scanner act sort of like light does. Since light is both electric and magnetic, it passes through objects like Glass or Diamond. But when it passes through it will slow down depending on the material. This is determined by the refractive index of that material. For example, Light passes through glass, but is slowed down in it's new media of travel. Diamond can slow down the speed of light by about 2.43 it's normal speed. Shocked

Since the scanner's waves are more like magnetism in property, then it could be possible to assume that something about that causes it to stay around in the shields much longer than other objects. Maybe it tends to like the shields and future-tech armor with depositions of dense crystals on the surface. Possibly because these future materials have far more complex structures in the nano and pico range. 10^-9 meters - 10^-12 meters

So the density of the material may cause the magnetic waves in the scanner to stay in the particles of the dropsuit much longer.

And what of dampeners?

Well, I'm no master physicist. But I do think that frequency determines the overall strength of the signal. If you could change the frequency of the oncoming scanner wave, to where it speeds up the process that the waves undergo as it travels through the atoms of the crystals, than maybe you could streamline it's pass through your suit to the point where the scanner cannot detect a change in the types of mediums that it's designed to pick up.

Which is maybe why the scanners say "No margin of error" when they don't pick up any enemy dropsuits. Because maybe the scanner calculates the changes in speed that the waves undergo as it passes through mediums like shield technology. Like an electromagnetic camouflage.

Or maybe it could just absorb ALL of it like the stealth fighter planes do today to radar signals, using materials like carbon nanotubes. These are very similar to diamonds in a lot of ways. In fact, carbon nanotubes would probably be the most viable way to make this type of armor while keeping the suit as light as possible. It's 100x stronger than steel, but only a third of it's weight.

Alright after reading all these posts I think I have a pretty good understanding of wha you all are saying, so i will say this.

Im not saying your wrong but I believe the active scanner act a little different from the way you put it.

I think tha the active scanner sends out a constant pulse, constant like the laser rifle, and then that pulse amplifes the already present signature that everything has, this could be nateral radiation or something along the line of that. The scanner then uses its on board computer to interpret these as enemies.

Now what i believe the profile dampeners do is lessen the the signature you make when amplified in an attempt to make your signature low enough so that the scanner's computer can't make you out, however it is picking up something. I t just does not know what it is which is why we get a "margin of error" message. "No Margin of Error" means that the scanner's computer was ableto make out everything in its range and "Some margin of Error" means that the scanner's computer was not able to make out everything in its range but it got most.

"We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste

ISRAELITE SCHOOL of UNIVERSAL PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE
#7 Posted: 2013.12.01 03:50
Yea for my idea, the frequency would have to be changed as it passes through the material, but so far it is impossible to change the frequency of something that travels through a different medium so that's kinda where the sci-fi comes in right there.

I am humbled for you to mention the scrambler rifles my friend. I must implore you to read up on our Chronicles posted here.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=106034&find=unread

This thread is designed around my Corporation's role in the EVE universe. You will find my lore to be VERY scientifically based, with lots of action and dialogue throughout the chapters that are already posted. I have to warn you that the content is rated R, just out of respect. But I think that your "Archive idea" is great. I have somewhat already been working on all of these things you just mentioned.

The Gallente Rifles, the Damage modifiers, the upcoming Battle Rifles and Caldari Rail rifle technology, all of this is subject to be discussed and expanded on in our chronicle, all while adding depth to the growth of our corporation.

Check it out if you haven't already bro. I think you will definitely get hooked.

Note that I am not trying to take all of the credit for the conception of the new weapons, but that our corporation is a mercenary based, "Preliminary Research" Corporation that tinkers with the new weapons to help make the prototype variants much stronger.

That being said, enjoy!
#8 Posted: 2013.12.01 14:14
JDEZ09 wrote:
Yea for my idea, the frequency would have to be changed as it passes through the material, but so far it is impossible to change the frequency of something that travels through a different medium so that's kinda where the sci-fi comes in right there.

I am humbled for you to mention the scrambler rifles my friend. I must implore you to read up on our Chronicles posted here.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=106034&find=unread

This thread is designed around my Corporation's role in the EVE universe. You will find my lore to be VERY scientifically based, with lots of action and dialogue throughout the chapters that are already posted. I have to warn you that the content is rated R, just out of respect. But I think that your "Archive idea" is great. I have somewhat already been working on all of these things you just mentioned.

The Gallente Rifles, the Damage modifiers, the upcoming Battle Rifles and Caldari Rail rifle technology, all of this is subject to be discussed and expanded on in our chronicle, all while adding depth to the growth of our corporation.

Check it out if you haven't already bro. I think you will definitely get hooked.

Note that I am not trying to take all of the credit for the conception of the new weapons, but that our corporation is a mercenary based, "Preliminary Research" Corporation that tinkers with the new weapons to help make the prototype variants much stronger.

That being said, enjoy!

Haven't checked in here for a while, and I have to commend you for your theorizing and chronicles, I like them both. As for the archive idea, I could possibly be interested in starting something like that, or help you out. My own blog handles mostly the psychological and cultural impacts of being a clone soldier, and I've always been interested in knowing how our equipment actually works.
Red Shirts Away Team
#9 Posted: 2013.12.03 06:52
Do all scanners work the same? In Eve each race has a preferred scanning method so there are four basic scanning types.

Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.

#10 Posted: 2013.12.03 09:52
Tch Tch wrote:
Do all scanners work the same? In Eve each race has a preferred scanning method so there are four basic scanning types.

I don't remember there being any racial variants for scanning. And besides even if there were, currently the only active scanner is made by Gallente, so the method of scanning is universal more or less when we discount passive scanning.
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