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Problems with Ambush spawns

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BurgezzE.T.F
#1 Posted: 2013.11.07 10:26
This spawn system has always been a problem but with veterans returning for the SP event it seems more evident now more than ever. Whether I am stomping or being stomped, there are clear flaws in the ambush spawn system.

When one team is getting completely wrecked by the other one, they get spawned back into the ****-storm until everyone's dead just about. This is ridiculous as the team has no way to defend themselves especially if they are being spawned out in the open where they can be struck down by tanks, OBs or whatever.

Not only, CCP, do we need to have better auto-spawns in general which switch sooner once there is a clear team imbalance in one area (E.g. a massive bumrush of one side) but the dis-advantaged team needs to be given advantageous spawns to help them back on their feet. This might mean a city spawn, spawns up on buildings or hills, or next to a couple of turrets.

Either way the spawns are ridiculous, my team was in an OMS ambush yesterday and lost a grand total of 5 clones, as opposed to the other team's 80. only 4 people on the enemy team killed someone.

PSN: Mudluck

843 HQ: www.843.enjin.com

Highest ever Thunderdome Win/Loss Title holder - 18-1

Isuuaya Tactical
Caldari State
#2 Posted: 2013.11.07 13:38
Dont ya love the "safe spawn" button drops ya in a mob of enemy!! Toss a nade fast and hope!!
I want to be CEO
#3 Posted: 2013.11.09 20:18  |  Edited by: Eskel Bondfree
Yeah, I felt the same when I played a couple of ambush matches yesterday. Almost every ambush match evolves into one mob of players chasing another mob. Spawn locations are moving together with the mobs, and the mob that is being chased usually spawns right into multiple lines of fire from the enemy.

This is to a large part because of the OMS maps that are way too big and not suited for a deathmatch mode. As soon as the action moves to one of the smaller sockets (read: one mob of players is being chased there by the enemy mob), the rest of the map becomes inaccessable because the default spawn is placing players right back into the mob where they die quickly.

In contrast, matches on small maps with clear bounds and lots of cover are usually quite fun, like line harvest (my favourite ambush map), or the biomass outpost (provided the action takes place inside the outpost and not in the no mans land around it).

We simply need smaller maps that are better suited for a free for all death match mode, and that are designed to prevent players from blobbing.
Also, if ambush does use large maps (OMS), spawns should probably be divided into a clear attacker and defender area, instead of using the 'intelligent' spawn system we have now. I think it used to be like that at some point, the problem back then was that the inferior team tended to hunker down in its spawn area and the match was static and not fun.
However, this was mostly because there were no good routes for engagement out of the spawn area and too little cover. Cover is plentiful in the outpost at the center of the map, but reaching the outpost requires traversing large open areas with no cover, so people camped in their spawn area instead. Again, a problem of map design.
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 Posted: 2013.11.18 00:51
So no one is spawning at the beginning of the match into a group of the opposing team still correct?

But the problem of spawning into groups further into the match is still occurring?

Anything is possible given enough time.

CCP LogicLoop

Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#5 Posted: 2013.11.18 01:44  |  Edited by: DJINN Marauder
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So no one is spawning at the beginning of the match into a group of the opposing team still correct?

But the problem of spawning into groups further into the match is still occurring?

Yes.

You see when I pub stomp, it comes to the point where we just bomb rush their spawn and decimate everyone there. However they keep spawning allowing us to effectively spawn kill them for a good minute or so.

I believe the root of the problem is the way you set up spawns. It'll spawn ppl next to friendlies. And thus if all your team is getting spawn killed, it'll keep spawning you there since your team is spawning there.

Not to mention after the 1st flip of spawn points(it does eventually flip), the enemy team is already half clones and we usually have an orbital, so we ca just scan their next spawn and OB it to clear them...and them proceed to spawn kill them where we just OB'd.

This is a typical 2-4 minute ambush match for when we have an squad btw.

Add me on League! :zMarauder

Psn: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY

xCosmic Voidx
#6 Posted: 2013.11.18 13:48
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So no one is spawning at the beginning of the match into a group of the opposing team still correct?

But the problem of spawning into groups further into the match is still occurring?


Wrong. It still happens, but not as regularly.

Sorry for shooting you in the back. Now please look elsewhere so I can continue.

BurgezzE.T.F
#7 Posted: 2013.11.18 14:08
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So no one is spawning at the beginning of the match into a group of the opposing team still correct?

But the problem of spawning into groups further into the match is still occurring?



Essentially what Marauder said + 1

You need to enable the losing team to grant some sort of spawning advantage over the other one to try and recapture the game rather than it become a spawn kill match. Just yesterday I went 30-2 in a 50 clone ambush because I was just sitting at their spawn waiting for them to come back in.

PSN: Mudluck

843 HQ: www.843.enjin.com

Highest ever Thunderdome Win/Loss Title holder - 18-1

Ka-Tet of 19
#8 Posted: 2013.11.19 01:57  |  Edited by: General BMF Johnson
Idea what if CCP setup generic spawn points in a red zone like in skirm/dom matches, so the player has the option when they are getting spawn merc'd? Just a thought.

All I see is RED people...All I see is DEAD people

Red dot CHOP CHOP...I see DEAD people

Ka-Tet of 19
#9 Posted: 2013.11.19 02:05
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So no one is spawning at the beginning of the match into a group of the opposing team still correct?

But the problem of spawning into groups further into the match is still occurring?



Yes. This has been my experience anyway.

Thanks for the support on this btw!

All I see is RED people...All I see is DEAD people

Red dot CHOP CHOP...I see DEAD people

C C P
C C P Alliance
#10 Posted: 2013.11.19 02:28
In regards to spawning into redzones. We tried this and it wasn't well received.

If players are still spawning into wrong team groups on initial spawn I really need to know about that. As the code fix was supposed to fix that.

As for the other part, this still clearly seems to need a lot of tweaking.

Anything is possible given enough time.

CCP LogicLoop

Ka-Tet of 19
#11 Posted: 2013.11.19 03:02
Ok thanks. No I am not spawning into wrong team at first anymore but later in game is still not right at times.

I do have a logi setup I run on skirm/dom matches and I have gotten to where I just run this setup long enough to place uplinks in various areas as to spawn there when needed, but not 100%. But war is not 100%

Ps: u have an awesome game in my opinion and also (my opinion) I think all of y'all @ccp are doing a great job! Keep ya heads up and to hell with all the cry babies. U still have a loyal fan base and I know there are newbies coming online all the time.


Keep up the good work and thanks for a great gaming experience!

All I see is RED people...All I see is DEAD people

Red dot CHOP CHOP...I see DEAD people

Rise Of Old Dudes
#12 Posted: 2013.11.19 05:38
Is a MCC spawn too much to ask for?

Smart Deploy?
Really?
That name change only makes it that much more infuriating.

PSN: The_Rynoceros

Console Master Race

BurgezzE.T.F
#13 Posted: 2013.11.19 14:00
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
In regards to spawning into redzones. We tried this and it wasn't well received.

If players are still spawning into wrong team groups on initial spawn I really need to know about that. As the code fix was supposed to fix that.

As for the other part, this still clearly seems to need a lot of tweaking.



I've never had a problem with spawning with reds anymore, never seen it happen and never had my team mates complain about it. Dynamics need to be changed so that players can go into ambush without the pure intention of camping, of the fear of getting stomped.

PSN: Mudluck

843 HQ: www.843.enjin.com

Highest ever Thunderdome Win/Loss Title holder - 18-1

I want to be CEO
#14 Posted: 2013.11.23 20:15  |  Edited by: Eskel Bondfree
CCP LogicLoop wrote:

If players are still spawning into wrong team groups on initial spawn I really need to know about that. As the code fix was supposed to fix that.

This happened to me the other day. I spawned alone, and shortly after a lone enemy spawned near me. We started to shoot each other, then many more enemy players spawned in near the one I was shooting at. I got killed by them, and the next respawn took me to my own team, which was at a completely different place.

Edit: the map was impact ridge, and my intial spawn was somewhere between the silos at I4/I5 and the structure nearest to it.
#15 Posted: 2013.12.06 20:24
When the spawn mechanic was changed in Spring, there was a dev post or a blog that explained how it worked. Like blue in the vicinity was a plus, a green was a plus, a red was a minus and a team death was a minus. And that was what you used to calculate spawn points. If that formula is still being used, then just making the value of a team death count two to three times higher. If 3 people die in he same place within 30 seconds, no one should continue to spawn in that location for at least 5 minutes.

I still occasionally spawn next to enemies. It is no as pronounced as it used to be, where you spawnd in the exact middle of a group of 6, but more like spawning within 20 meters of an enemy's initial spawn. I am however not alone when this happens. it is usually with a group of 4-myself included- that spawn too close to an enemy's initial spawn.

I am not an alt

#16 Posted: 2013.12.15 10:40
It is not as bad as it used to be but it still happens in the beginning

what sucks is that when your team is getting decimated, you always spawn with your team.... and get spawn killed until the area is completely cleared of blues. I have to wait until everyone dies before I can safely spawn in again

I won the game.

Second-Nature
#17 Posted: 2013.12.20 23:08  |  Edited by: IVANJAKANOV
Just today I got a smart spawn in an ambush on the map with the 3 ring cannon thing in the city, and the very first spawn in the beginning of the game it spawned me in a spot where I was taking fire almost immediately (less than a minute) and couldn't get out of this spot as a heavy by jumping or sprint/jumping or anything. I saw teammates jumping out of this area pretty easily, but there were no other heavies around. I looked all around for ways to get out but ended up getting shot by combat rifles and assault rifles until I died, and even though there was a nanite injector 3 meters away they couldn't get back up there to revive me.

Edit: I thought it might help to show where this happened. Looking at the spine crescent map it was somewhere in E6 to H6 area near the outside of the city, but it is hard to tell because even though the city part of the map is the same, it was turned a different way and had different surroundings. The enemies that killed me spawned from somewhere near the center of the city.
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#18 Posted: 2013.12.23 02:44
Ambush spawns are terrible still. When one side has the upper hand (almost always happens with the lack of matchmaking system) it becomes spawn kill 514.

Just now I played on a Map and it spawned my whole team on the low ground while giving then enemy high ground. We were spawn camped all game. The system never moved the spawn outside the lower platform and we were farmed.

I have a video of the end part. Would you like me to post it? It's only 30 sec long however

Add me on League! :zMarauder

Psn: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY

Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
#19 Posted: 2013.12.23 07:50
I don't see why the game can't cycle various spawn options and provide you with the best one, instead of the same one for 5 minutes straight. These maps are plenty large of enough to accomplish a safe spawn every time.

Another generation come and gone o7

Savage Bullet
RUST415
#20 Posted: 2014.01.08 00:16
I have not seen this mentioned yet: when only 1 uplink is active smart deploy will force you to spawn there. You have NO othee options 90% of the time. This alone is probably one of the most frustrating aspects of spawn. You may very well know a tank and a heavy are 10m from link and you have to spawn there, generally with your back turned with the exception of being completely surounded.
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