Map Ideas

 
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Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
#1 Posted: 2013.09.29 13:56
Now that fauna is coming, what about adding new maps like a forest-style map. Giant trees, an outpost covered in vines, lots of grass, less sunlight because of the tall trees blocking them, etc. That would make for an awesome map. But, vehicles would have a harder time traversing through, I guess. Maybe add vehicles that are adapted to the new terrain? Either way,it would still be awesome.

Also, sorry if someone already posted this elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything like this beforehand.

Scouts United

Gk.0s & Quafes all day.

Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
#2 Posted: 2013.10.02 00:25
sounds cool, but not to kill your idea but... memory.

this is probably what LogicLoop would say.

"We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste

Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
#3 Posted: 2013.10.02 14:48
Mac Dac wrote:
sounds cool, but not to kill your idea but... memory.

this is probably what LogicLoop would say.

Right Sad I didn't think about that.

Scouts United

Gk.0s & Quafes all day.

C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 Posted: 2013.10.08 00:16
I know at some point the "intention" is to have fauna. When that will arrive, or how, I have no answer to. However, to speak on your idea, these are things that concept art, environment art, and level design would flesh out in the initial phase of new terrains or game-play areas if the feature should arrive.

Anything is possible given enough time.

CCP LogicLoop

Nos Nothi
#5 Posted: 2013.11.11 20:11
still want...

"Spilling floor cleaner only makes the floor cleaner." - Draxus Prime

Closed Beta Vet

Scout

Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
#6 Posted: 2013.11.11 22:57
Draxus Prime wrote:
still want...

Yeah. Still hoping. There have been other threads that came up after this one on the same topic, but I don't remember much of them. Have been hanging around the general discussion threads lately.

Scouts United

Gk.0s & Quafes all day.

Nos Nothi
#7 Posted: 2013.11.12 02:57
Joel II X wrote:
Now that fauna is coming, what about adding new maps like a forest-style map. Giant trees, an outpost covered in vines, lots of grass, less sunlight because of the tall trees blocking them, etc. That would make for an awesome map. But, vehicles would have a harder time traversing through, I guess. Maybe add vehicles that are adapted to the new terrain? Either way,it would still be awesome.

Also, sorry if someone already posted this elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything like this beforehand.

they're adding speeders
trees? speeders?
just like endor

"Spilling floor cleaner only makes the floor cleaner." - Draxus Prime

Closed Beta Vet

Scout

Weiben Ritter
#8 Posted: 2013.11.17 21:59
The map environment is an awesome idea. Keep the vehicles the same though because they have such an advantage already. The terrain would make for an interesting infantry battle. It would be cool.
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 Posted: 2013.11.18 00:32
So we could put in trees in to the maps. However, this counts towards our mesh limit on terrain (which last I heard is about 200 meshes). Trees will not work in the current "plant" system you see now. They have to be placed as a static mesh. I did clear this info up finally with a Tech Artist last week.

So it is a matter of convincing Team Daddies (CCP Stiffneck) of sacrificing other meshs for some trees and to make them.

Anything is possible given enough time.

CCP LogicLoop

#10 Posted: 2013.11.18 00:52
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So we could put in trees in to the maps. However, this counts towards our mesh limit on terrain (which last I heard is about 200 meshes). Trees will not work in the current "plant" system you see now. They have to be placed as a static mesh. I did clear this info up finally with a Tech Artist last week.

So it is a matter of convincing Team Daddies (CCP Stiffneck) of sacrificing other meshs for some trees and to make them.


Wouldn't be too bad if the static meshes were interchangeable, replacing the cargo containers and cargo trucks with these trees in the more remote locations. Is this feasible?

(Former) CPM2 Representative for Dust 514 and Project Nova

C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 Posted: 2013.11.18 01:36
It would require a duplicate of the game mode it is changing, then that game mode would have to be the one that randomly loads. We can not dynamically swap them in a single game mode layer.

Anything is possible given enough time.

CCP LogicLoop

#12 Posted: 2013.11.18 02:28
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
It would require a duplicate of the game mode it is changing, then that game mode would have to be the one that randomly loads. We can not dynamically swap them in a single game mode layer.


Yeah, never mind then o_o;

(Former) CPM2 Representative for Dust 514 and Project Nova

Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
#13 Posted: 2013.11.18 06:42
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So we could put in trees in to the maps. However, this counts towards our mesh limit on terrain (which last I heard is about 200 meshes). Trees will not work in the current "plant" system you see now. They have to be placed as a static mesh. I did clear this info up finally with a Tech Artist last week.

So it is a matter of convincing Team Daddies (CCP Stiffneck) of sacrificing other meshs for some trees and to make them.


That's 200 mesh object-types, or instances?
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 Posted: 2013.11.18 07:13
Mark Crusader wrote:
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So we could put in trees in to the maps. However, this counts towards our mesh limit on terrain (which last I heard is about 200 meshes). Trees will not work in the current "plant" system you see now. They have to be placed as a static mesh. I did clear this info up finally with a Tech Artist last week.

So it is a matter of convincing Team Daddies (CCP Stiffneck) of sacrificing other meshs for some trees and to make them.


That's 200 mesh object-types, or instances?


200 total static meshes on the terrain. We can go over that but not by much. That is our safe count.

One trick around this is "combining" a group of meshes around each other into a new single mesh. However, that doesn't alter the mesh material count. The different materials are still in use and that has a limit as well. It's all a really fine balancing act in the long run.

Anything is possible given enough time.

CCP LogicLoop

#15 Posted: 2013.11.18 11:32
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
Mark Crusader wrote:
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So we could put in trees in to the maps. However, this counts towards our mesh limit on terrain (which last I heard is about 200 meshes). Trees will not work in the current "plant" system you see now. They have to be placed as a static mesh. I did clear this info up finally with a Tech Artist last week.

So it is a matter of convincing Team Daddies (CCP Stiffneck) of sacrificing other meshs for some trees and to make them.


That's 200 mesh object-types, or instances?


200 total static meshes on the terrain. We can go over that but not by much. That is our safe count.

One trick around this is "combining" a group of meshes around each other into a new single mesh. However, that doesn't alter the mesh material count. The different materials are still in use and that has a limit as well. It's all a really fine balancing act in the long run.


When you say materials are you referring to a texture or..?

Also, in the case of 'forests' couldn't you put together multiple meshes in the single mesh approach you've brought up and just use the same materials for each? I mean, would be hard to manage with the terrain elevation changing but you technically could put large tree trunks with all the actual floral bits at the top - much like how the Installations work, what with their elongated spikes.

(Former) CPM2 Representative for Dust 514 and Project Nova

R.I.P DUST
#16 Posted: 2013.11.18 15:17
hey! just 20 minutes ago just to play a game in which I ordered 2 to be deployed ships and exploded! also ordered 2 tanks were destroyed GUNLOGI and also just starting that game. Exploded at the time of deployment! . As you know your tank costs me each and every ship? are expensive! Give me back my 5 million isk! my username is edgardo1156

Rindanse ante el Imperio Amarr. Vine a esclavizar de nuevo a los Minmatar que escaparon de nuestro imperio. xD

Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
#17 Posted: 2013.11.18 16:08
edgardo1156 wrote:
hey! just 20 minutes ago just to play a game in which I ordered 2 to be deployed ships and exploded! also ordered 2 tanks were destroyed GUNLOGI and also just starting that game. Exploded at the time of deployment! . As you know your tank costs me each and every ship? are expensive! Give me back my 5 million isk! my username is edgardo1156

Wrong thread.

But yeah. What if we just had super large tree trunks Anna just cover most of the top with a static 2D layer representing leaves blocking sunlight?

Scouts United

Gk.0s & Quafes all day.

Ka-Tet of 19
#18 Posted: 2013.11.18 16:10
edgardo1156 wrote:
hey! just 20 minutes ago just to play a game in which I ordered 2 to be deployed ships and exploded! also ordered 2 tanks were destroyed GUNLOGI and also just starting that game. Exploded at the time of deployment! . As you know your tank costs me each and every ship? are expensive! Give me back my 5 million isk! my username is edgardo1156



Why are you posting that on this thread? It has nothing to do with the topic.

Besides it sounds like you need to stop deploying when you see the first one blow and move to a different location!!! Idea Why would you just keep dropping?

All I see is RED people...All I see is DEAD people

Red dot CHOP CHOP...I see DEAD people

C C P
C C P Alliance
#19 Posted: 2013.11.19 00:18  |  Edited by: CCP LogicLoop
Aeon Amadi wrote:
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
Mark Crusader wrote:
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So we could put in trees in to the maps. However, this counts towards our mesh limit on terrain (which last I heard is about 200 meshes). Trees will not work in the current "plant" system you see now. They have to be placed as a static mesh. I did clear this info up finally with a Tech Artist last week.

So it is a matter of convincing Team Daddies (CCP Stiffneck) of sacrificing other meshs for some trees and to make them.


That's 200 mesh object-types, or instances?


200 total static meshes on the terrain. We can go over that but not by much. That is our safe count.

One trick around this is "combining" a group of meshes around each other into a new single mesh. However, that doesn't alter the mesh material count. The different materials are still in use and that has a limit as well. It's all a really fine balancing act in the long run.


When you say materials are you referring to a texture or..?

Also, in the case of 'forests' couldn't you put together multiple meshes in the single mesh approach you've brought up and just use the same materials for each? I mean, would be hard to manage with the terrain elevation changing but you technically could put large tree trunks with all the actual floral bits at the top - much like how the Installations work, what with their elongated spikes.


Yes. Materials are textures.

So we are now delving a little further into territory I am not 100% up to speed on. Mainly because of differences between versions of the Unreal Engine. For example if I recall later versions of UDK support converting all the materials in a multi mesh merging into a single material. Prior to that particular version though, the materials for each mesh merged into a single mesh are still counted as an individual material for each one. So if we combined 15 meshes into one, we would end up with a single mesh using 15 instances / draws / calls of the material, even though it is the same material. So the mesh that Unreal has made actually puts in the mesh 15 separate material id's calling for the same material.

Also, if we were to just build say one mesh in max ready made with 100's of trees or even 25, and spread them out how we like, we still have to worry about the LOD. If we spread it across the whole map, then the trees would never use a low LOD. It would always be loaded at full LOD because the player is always close enough to the "single" mesh.

Anything is possible given enough time.

CCP LogicLoop

#20 Posted: 2013.11.19 02:15
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
Aeon Amadi wrote:
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
Mark Crusader wrote:
CCP LogicLoop wrote:
So we could put in trees in to the maps. However, this counts towards our mesh limit on terrain (which last I heard is about 200 meshes). Trees will not work in the current "plant" system you see now. They have to be placed as a static mesh. I did clear this info up finally with a Tech Artist last week.

So it is a matter of convincing Team Daddies (CCP Stiffneck) of sacrificing other meshs for some trees and to make them.


That's 200 mesh object-types, or instances?


200 total static meshes on the terrain. We can go over that but not by much. That is our safe count.

One trick around this is "combining" a group of meshes around each other into a new single mesh. However, that doesn't alter the mesh material count. The different materials are still in use and that has a limit as well. It's all a really fine balancing act in the long run.


When you say materials are you referring to a texture or..?

Also, in the case of 'forests' couldn't you put together multiple meshes in the single mesh approach you've brought up and just use the same materials for each? I mean, would be hard to manage with the terrain elevation changing but you technically could put large tree trunks with all the actual floral bits at the top - much like how the Installations work, what with their elongated spikes.


Yes. Materials are textures.

So we are now delving a little further into territory I am not 100% up to speed on. Mainly because of differences between versions of the Unreal Engine. For example if I recall later versions of UDK support converting all the materials in a multi mesh merging into a single material. Prior to that particular version though, the materials for each mesh merged into a single mesh are still counted as an individual material for each one. So if we combined 15 meshes into one, we would end up with a single mesh using 15 instances / draws / calls of the material, even though it is the same material. So the mesh that Unreal has made actually puts in the mesh 15 separate material id's calling for the same material.

Also, if we were to just build say one mesh in max ready made with 100's of trees or even 25, and spread them out how we like, we still have to worry about the LOD. If we spread it across the whole map, then the trees would never use a low LOD. It would always be loaded at full LOD because the player is always close enough to the "single" mesh.


Sounds like a lot of unnecessary performance loss and with LOD being set to full permanently it would be even worse when equipment spam started taking place. Maybe after we get the equipment spam FPS dips lined out it could be explored - but thank you so much for the in depth discussion regarding it!

Side Note: 15 materials? Texture, Bump, UV, Specularity...

(Former) CPM2 Representative for Dust 514 and Project Nova

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