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Dev Blog: Planetary Conquest

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TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
#961 Posted: 2013.03.18 18:51  |  Edited by: steadyhand amarr
as a quick point. we does an attacker have to wait till the next day for an attack, surely an attacker should be aloud to launch chained attacks if he wins with time left on the hour clock. This gives everybody in both coprs a good hour of fighting. and after the hour the attacking side can see if they want to continue the next day or deiced its not worth it.

see agree with the 24 hour declaration though as it gives both sides time to draw up a game plan

i can see a lot of attacks simply burning out due to the fact smaller corps cant get everyone going for the 4-5 days it would take to cap a district from simple burnout and wanting to play something else. At the moment the system heavily favorurs big corps in this regard. please as always remember you core playerbase has lives unlike most people here :P

"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"

winner of EU squad cup

GOGO power rangers

C C P
C C P Alliance
#962 Posted: 2013.03.18 19:02
So after much discussion internally we think we need some new new numbers. Before I go into this if you have not read my previous big post please check it out: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=627150#post627150

One of the things we realized with those numbers is that it was possible to lock out districts by attacking them with alt corps and MAKE money, not lose money. Woops. :D Glad we think these things through so clearly. :P

So some more changes

Original numbers:
Genolution starter package clones: 100
Genolution starter package ISK: 20M ISK
Clone generation rate: 40
PF clone generation rate: 60
Minimum clone loss: 100
Clone sell value: 100,000 ISK
Minimum clone movement: 100

Numbers proposed in previous post:
Genolution starter package clones: 200
Genolution starter package ISK: 40M ISK
Clone generation rate: 100
PF clone generation rate: 150
Minimum clone loss: 150
Clone sell value: No change
Minimum clone movement: No change

New numbers we are thinking about:
Genolution starter package clones: 200
Genolution starter package ISK: 40M ISK
Clone generation rate: 75
PF clone generation rate: 100
Minimum clone loss: 150
Clone sell value: No change
Minimum clone movement: 150

On top of that we want to bump the cost of moving:
Genolution base cost to move: 500,000 -> 3M ISK

Most of these changes are trying to find a balance between making this gameplay profitable, fun, balanced, and removing exploits. Keep the discussion going guys!

CCP FoxFour // Game Designer

http://twitter.com/regnerba

Dust2Dust.
#963 Posted: 2013.03.18 19:10
Ah jeez, how'd we miss that!? heh

What's this new number? 'Genolution base cost to move: 500,000 -> 3M ISK'

Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot

Scout community is the nuts

Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
#964 Posted: 2013.03.18 19:10
I'll for the new changes with the exception of the Genolution base cost to move being so high, That's a lot when you consider how much a district will be earning.

Maybe settle for the middle ground of 1.5m?
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
#965 Posted: 2013.03.18 19:39
CCP FoxFour wrote:
So after much discussion internally we think we need some new new numbers. ...

Most of these changes are trying to find a balance between making this gameplay profitable, fun, balanced, and removing exploits.
Keep the discussion going guys!


Do not like.

I think you've designed towards making this a passive isk farm. You've made it worse with the 40m minimum buyin for people without districts.

Too expensive to raid with too little reward for killing people instead of sitting and farming with the zerg.

75k/100k/125k would be a better set of numbers instead of 50/100/400
C C P
C C P Alliance
#966 Posted: 2013.03.18 19:48
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
50/100/400


Where did you get those numbers from?

They are 50/100/200

CCP FoxFour // Game Designer

http://twitter.com/regnerba

Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
#967 Posted: 2013.03.18 19:52
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
50/100/400


Where did you get those numbers from?

They are 50/100/200


You are correct, however you lose 30m per attack instead of 20m per attack now (as a raider).
C C P
C C P Alliance
#968 Posted: 2013.03.18 19:53
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
50/100/400


Where did you get those numbers from?

They are 50/100/200


You are correct, however you lose 30m per attack instead of 20m per attack now (as a raider).


I have said it before and will say it again, this gameplay is not meant to encouraging raiding with the clone starter packs, it is actually designed to discourage that. Once you own a raiding should be viable, but not owning a district and making money from those that do is not something we are designing for.

CCP FoxFour // Game Designer

http://twitter.com/regnerba

Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
#969 Posted: 2013.03.18 20:00
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
50/100/400


Where did you get those numbers from?

They are 50/100/200


You are correct, however you lose 30m per attack instead of 20m per attack now (as a raider).


I have said it before and will say it again, this gameplay is not meant to encouraging raiding with the clone starter packs, it is actually designed to discourage that. Once you own a raiding should be viable, but not owning a district and making money from those that do is not something we are designing for.


24 hours notice for every fight.

Discouraging raiding playstyles so that people can passively farm.

No advantage to attacking versus farming your clones.

No difference between districts so no reason to move around once you are fat and have the timers you want.

This design is too conservative imo, it needs some more meat and spice.

Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
#970 Posted: 2013.03.18 20:20
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
50/100/400


Where did you get those numbers from?

They are 50/100/200


You are correct, however you lose 30m per attack instead of 20m per attack now (as a raider).


I have said it before and will say it again, this gameplay is not meant to encouraging raiding with the clone starter packs, it is actually designed to discourage that. Once you own a raiding should be viable, but not owning a district and making money from those that do is not something we are designing for.


I agree with this design idea. The Geno Pack has no travel cost associated with it, and so must be made inferior to using your clones and paying to transport them from your district, to the point of invasion.

The Pack serves to allow corps who have no foothold in a district yet to get a shot, not as a spec ops option for mercs/raiders or to otherwise bypass the clone travel degredation mechanic.

I am the sixth son

Chrome Vet

Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
#971 Posted: 2013.03.18 20:33
Sextus Hardcock wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
50/100/400


Where did you get those numbers from?

They are 50/100/200


You are correct, however you lose 30m per attack instead of 20m per attack now (as a raider).


I have said it before and will say it again, this gameplay is not meant to encouraging raiding with the clone starter packs, it is actually designed to discourage that. Once you own a raiding should be viable, but not owning a district and making money from those that do is not something we are designing for.


I agree with this design idea. The Geno Pack has no travel cost associated with it, and so must be made inferior to using your clones and paying to transport them from your district, to the point of invasion.

The Pack serves to allow corps who have no foothold in a district yet to get a shot, not as a spec ops option for mercs/raiders or to otherwise bypass the clone travel degredation mechanic.


What would be a specops/raider option, besides having to hold sov?
Militaires Sans Jeux
#972 Posted: 2013.03.18 21:21
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
What would be a specops/raider option, besides having to hold sov?

I guess that, right now, the answer is "none". Since they're trying to make you get a territory to make it your staging ground for raiding. Otherwise, Genolution clones would be the only viable way to do it, unless you could raid and steal the target people's clones to keep yourself supplied. But that would force you to fight every other jump.

@FoxFour: You need to make passive farming less profitable than active farming, and then adding bonuses to owning more territories to increase the ISK production of your territories. I'd prefer if the bonuses only apply to adyacent districts to the ones that you own, which would encourage fighting amongst neighbors (like most territorial warfare was done back in the feudal eras of most ancient civilizations).
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
#973 Posted: 2013.03.18 21:54
preferred to 100 ISK baseline clone price, we all like profit right? Makes the districts worth fighting for.

I do worry that smaller corps are being priced out of starting with the 40mil buy in. it's not a problem for me personally but new blood is always essential in any economy, it's like the housing market, it all grinds to a halt without first time buyers!
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#974 Posted: 2013.03.18 22:49
I love the changes. This is turning into a real time game of Slay, I love the mechanics. It actually makes the DUST4514 become strategical, complex, and a lite war sim for our arm chair strategists. CCP do not dumb this type of gameplay down, because simple people can't figure it out. We want New Eden, and we want it now.
Clones 4u
#975 Posted: 2013.03.18 23:08
PT SD wrote:
I love the changes. This is turning into a real time game of Slay, I love the mechanics. It actually makes the DUST4514 become strategical, complex, and a lite war sim for our arm chair strategists. CCP do not dumb this type of gameplay down, because simple people can't figure it out. We want New Eden, and we want it now.

Don't forget the plans for MCC commanders playing a RTS-style game as well, to sit in between the turn-based strategy that is planetary conquest and the console FPS elements. Add the New Eden metagame and you've got fun on so many levels.

RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus

Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
#976 Posted: 2013.03.18 23:21
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:

What would be a specops/raider option, besides having to hold sov?


Using a district as a staging ground you could invade other districts based on the potential loot gained. Corps that run 23/7 proto make good targets if you can consistently get a superior ISK efficiency against them.

Other than that, not much. At least until the Merc Marketplace gets implemented.

I am the sixth son

Chrome Vet

Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
#977 Posted: 2013.03.18 23:24  |  Edited by: Sontie
These larger numbers make it seem like smaller/newer corps are going to have a hell of a time trying to get involved in PC, at least until the number of districts becomes substantially more.

Imagine if you were a smaller corp of moderately skilled players. You can field 16... barely. For a corp like this, participating in PC will be very... expensive. First, most other corps will know your not the best, so you will be a target. And every time your attacked, you will lose a significant amount of isk, even if you win. Combine that with the significant cost of just getting started, and if your not a top 20 corp, forget about PC. And if your not one of their best 16 fighting in one of these corps, your pretty much just a isk farmer for your corp.

Sucks.

I also don't think "zerging" will be a problem. no matter how many members PRO has, no matter how many times they attack, they will still lose. You can only keep as many districts as you can effectively defend.
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#978 Posted: 2013.03.18 23:36
Sextus Hardcock wrote:
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:

What would be a specops/raider option, besides having to hold sov?


Using a district as a staging ground you could invade other districts based on the potential loot gained. Corps that run 23/7 proto make good targets if you can consistently get a superior ISK efficiency against them.

Other than that, not much. At least until the Merc Marketplace gets implemented.


Imagine 16 kamikaze militia Mercs attacking districts day after day of Protobears. Their ISK efficieny is going to be null. The tears are going to be delicious.
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
#979 Posted: 2013.03.18 23:39
Sontie wrote:
These larger numbers make it seem like smaller/newer corps are going to have a hell of a time trying to get involved in PC, at least until the number of districts becomes substantially more.

Imagine if you were a smaller corp of moderately skilled players. You can field 16... barely. For a corp like this, participating in PC will be very... expensive. First, most other corps will know your not the best, so you will be a target. And every time your attacked, you will lose a significant amount of isk, even if you win. Combine that with the significant cost of just getting started, and if your not a top 20 corp, forget about PC. And if your not one of their best 16 fighting in one of these corps, your pretty much just a isk farmer for your corp.

Sucks.


There's no reason some of these smaller corps can't merge together to create an average-sized group with a moderate amount of players and decent amount of depth. A lot of these smaller corps have a few really good players, but can't shine in Corp battles nor will they be able to in PC because they're all spread around.

Plenty of people want to run their own corp, but if they're not willing to merge with similar corps (both in terms of skill and size) to try to be competitive, I really don't have a lot of sympathy.

Not to mention, it's going to be almost impossible to create a system that doesn't favor bigger corps over smaller ones or vice versa and still keep it skill-based, fun and balanced.

"The unexamined life is not worth living."

RNDclan.com

A-D-A-C
RISE of LEGION
#980 Posted: 2013.03.19 00:10
No ISK farming without conquest. You need more and more districts to farm more and more clones !!!

40M for 200 clones minimize alt corps effect, but do not avoid it completely. The thing is that now you could see a result at medium-long term, instead of short-medium term. So to organize this well without finally have a real corp split, it's much more complicated (but still not impossible)

Do you loose ISK splitting corp with the new numbers ? Same answer, it just needs more time, so no ... Will I personnaly take the risk and the time to do it now ? I don't think so.
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