General Discussions

 
^ Back to top
5 PagesPrevious page1234Next pageLast page
 

Will Nova Succeed in Competitive Matchmaking?

Jump to first DEV post
Author
Made in Poland...
#21 Posted: 2017.05.23 22:10
One Eyed King wrote:
Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta.


If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand.
But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure.

Vigilant Pilot

Happy Hunting

Nos Nothi
#22 Posted: 2017.05.23 22:54
Mejt0 wrote:
One Eyed King wrote:
Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta.


If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand.
But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure.


That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything.

Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.

Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

#23 Posted: 2017.05.24 04:17
One Eyed King wrote:
Mejt0 wrote:
One Eyed King wrote:
Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta.


If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand.
But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure.


That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything.

In Dust 514 the biggest issue was that certain people could afford to run proto in all public matches, but most people couldn't afford to run more than advanced, so you had squads of proto players killing other players with little resistance.

Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

Made in Poland...
#24 Posted: 2017.05.24 07:34
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
One Eyed King wrote:
Mejt0 wrote:
One Eyed King wrote:
Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta.


If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand.
But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure.


That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything.

In Dust 514 the biggest issue was that certain people could afford to run proto in all public matches, but most people couldn't afford to run more than advanced, so you had squads of proto players killing other players with little resistance.


I can assure you that a BPO with cheap proto mods could compeat with full proto suits.
It was due to people not having maxed core skills and using bad and cheap mods that got stomped. The only real difference was the eq. As proto eq >>> other tiers.

People were downgrading too fast to save some ISK.

I was tanking major time in pubs. People wouldn't do anything about AV. Points wrere red because people were going to homepoint or redline after just few deaths.

Vigilant Pilot

Happy Hunting

Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
#25 Posted: 2017.05.24 09:27
richiesutie 2 wrote:
Depends is they realise its all to do with winning and not k/d or score per min


Hey hey, long time no see!

Hows it going dude :)

Winner of the EU Squad Cup, Power Ranger for Life!

"My YT Channel"

Going for the gold
#26 Posted: 2017.05.24 11:32
Whenever I get notifications for this thread it says "Will Nova succ" Lol

#NekosForLife ⎝◥▶‿‿◀◤⎠

choo choo motherf*cker, next destination, anal devastation. - Classy trainspotting comment.

Dead Man's Game
#27 Posted: 2017.05.24 15:27
One Eyed King wrote:
Mejt0 wrote:
One Eyed King wrote:
Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta.


If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand.
But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure.


That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything.


I remember before the big reworks on av and tanks, people complained about tanks being too good... When actually back then the issue was tanks were too good when the other team had no AV.

Once people pulled AV the tankers were just dead weight, couldn't get close enough to the objective without being blapped by 2 or 3 forge gunners, who while the tanks weren't there were one shotting infantry.

The problem was teams not balancing themselves, by having someone with necessary skills for all situations... Everyone wanted to be assault/slayers, but didn't seem to realise you need at least some variety in your team to combat the variety in the other team.

It's like when a team with no heavies tried to defend the Gal-Lag facility... Obviously you're gonna get shat on by the heavy/logi squad waddling slowly towards you.

The biggest problem with Dust, was a lack of strategy on the part of the players... No willingness to adapt... If they can't win as their generic default setup, then the other team must be running OP gear!


Of course, since some things were unbalanced, this complaining and lack of strategic awareness just caused confusion for the devs and lead to the cycle of constant buffs/nerfs that we all loved to hate.
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
#28 Posted: 2017.05.24 15:31  |  Edited by: Vrain Matari
Re the suits you can take into a match, the way it seems to read is that you'll have 6 slots, each slot giving you a dropsuit + your chosen preconfigured loadout for each suit.

Those could mean 6 different assault dropsuits/loadouts, or 6 different heavy dropsuit/loadouts but what we won't be able to do is modify the dropsuits in our list or any loadout after the match starts.

e.g.(in my boring solo merc life):

1 Uplink Scout
1 Speedhack Hacking Scout
1 Tacnet Assault
1 DPS Assault
1 RE Logi
1 Support Logi

and that's it, no changes once match starts.

Spending merc fortune like water keeping these clone tumors under control....

Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
#29 Posted: 2017.05.24 15:53
Re matchmaking, Rattati's core logic from both the Dust matchmaker and the Dust teambuilder should still be serviceable. The laws of inference haven't changed, after all. Iirc, his matchmaker already favors the win over individual performance.

Details like squad size may change, true, and that will require some empirical mucking about, and everything may have to be rewritten for the new codebase, but intellectually the problem has already been worked, imo.

All we really need in pubs for good player experiences re matchmaking is a big enough player population.

For ranked corp battles, he should be able to use the outputs from the matchmaker and teambuilder to generate corp rankings, at least as a first approximation. After that match data should allow the matchmaker to iterate towards refined rankings.

Spending merc fortune like water keeping these clone tumors under control....

The Rainbow Effect
#30 Posted: 2017.05.24 20:26  |  Edited by: richiesutie 2
Rei Shepard wrote:
richiesutie 2 wrote:
Depends is they realise its all to do with winning and not k/d or score per min


Hey hey, long time no see!

Hows it going dude :)


Going pretty well, havent had much time for games but should over the summer.

We could try get a TRE squad in overwatch during july some time

I know babar would love junkrat
ROGUE RELICS
#31 Posted: 2017.05.24 21:33
DUST Fiend wrote:
I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/


best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits.

sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit.

oh you have a tank? change suit and counter.

oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits

Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there.

I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.
Nos Nothi
#32 Posted: 2017.05.24 22:01
^

Plus there is a risk/reward aspect too. You can play it safe and play a suit that is average at several things, but if you choose a specialized suit, and are in the right situation, you get the advantage.

Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.

Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

#33 Posted: 2017.05.25 02:14
DeathwindRising wrote:
DUST Fiend wrote:
I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/


best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits.

sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit.

oh you have a tank? change suit and counter.

oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits

Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there.

I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.

That would kill the player base very quickly. No one likes being stuck in a long drawn out game with nothing to do because they are at a disadvantage.

Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

ROGUE RELICS
#34 Posted: 2017.05.25 09:11
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:
DeathwindRising wrote:
DUST Fiend wrote:
I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/


best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits.

sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit.

oh you have a tank? change suit and counter.

oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits

Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there.

I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.

That would kill the player base very quickly. No one likes being stuck in a long drawn out game with nothing to do because they are at a disadvantage.


Call of Duty prevents disadvantages; huge player base

Battlefield 1 prevents disadvantages; huge player base

Titanfall 2 prevents disadvantages; huge player base

Overwatch prevents disadvantages; huge player base

I see now, what makes a great game. People shouldn't have to overcome challenges.
Dead Man's Game
#35 Posted: 2017.05.25 14:14  |  Edited by: Derpty Derp
Mejt0 wrote:
I'm not up to date with Nova but I guess I will take a look. Is this what they have in plans, limited fits per battle?
How many did we have in Dust, was it 20 or 30? I remember that it wasn't enough for me.

More choices = more counters = more varied gameplay

A single fit would be awful, but limited fits I would take, just for my own sanity. Trying to decide what role to switch to and then sieving through all those fits and vehicle fits... I recall renaming everything and adding little codes to the start to keep them in some sort of order, took me ******* ages, lol.


DeathwindRising wrote:
DUST Fiend wrote:
I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/


best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits.

sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit.

oh you have a tank? change suit and counter.

oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits

Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there.

I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.


I disagree... Can you imagine the rage if people couldn't switch to an AV fit when someone was free to call in a tank and recall it at will.

Not to mention it gave importance to defending not only the objective, but also the supply depos. You have the advantage if you can hold it, because the other team has to die or run back to the red-zone to change gear... Or if your tankers done his job properly, they have no supply depos because we've cleared a path to their red-zone and blown up their supply depo, while the idiots just ignored the tank and let it happen.

More usable strategies = more interesting gameplay.
Nos Nothi
#36 Posted: 2017.05.25 14:23
Except at this point there are no tanks in Nova, and we have no idea what form Nova will be taking if and when it gets to the point of vehicles.

Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.

Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

Made in Poland...
#37 Posted: 2017.05.25 14:44
DeathwindRising wrote:

best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits.

sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit.

oh you have a tank? change suit and counter.

oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits

Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there.

I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.


How do you know what suit to deploy? If you don't know and have no way of knowing then you are just blindly going into the battle hoping for the best, "I'm ****** " - you'd say. Where is strategy in this?

Do you know why having multiple fits was needed? Because there were strategies that allowed you to completely take over the objective without letting you to even cross the "border". You needed to adapt or surrender.

Yes, you change the suit to adapt. Your team needs firepower? You bring firepower. Your team needs support? You bring support. That's how it worked.
Enemy team has lots of anti shield guns. You need armour based suit or surrender.
Enemy team has lots of anti armour guns. You need shield based suit or surrender.



Derpty Derp wrote:

A single fit would be awful, but limited fits I would take, just for my own sanity. Trying to decide what role to switch to and then sieving through all those fits and vehicle fits... I recall renaming everything and adding little codes to the start to keep them in some sort of order, took me ******* ages, lol.


I liked this part Smile, organizing this whole mess paid off in the end.

Vigilant Pilot

Happy Hunting

#38 Posted: 2017.05.25 15:28  |  Edited by: byte modal
^agreed.
It kept the battle fluid and dynamic. All things being equal, the objectives (not A, B, C objective objects, but objectives as in short term goals) moved constantly. As a result, we were constantly having to adapt to maintain progression or defense. I stress all things being equal because I do not want the point lost on arguments of balance or some hypothetical whatever. I have plenty of issues with other factors such as those.

There's no argument here really, that if you thought it was a negative, or think that whatever changes in philosophy exist for NOVA to justify abandoning that is a good idea. It was just what some of us loved about DUST---part of what we loved at least. Hey. If that's change, cool. Whatever. Enjoy it if you felt the old was bad. I hope I enjoy it too when/if the game launches. Just please, stop arguing as if those characteristics of the game were bad. Perhaps details were not thought through enough. Perhaps implementations were poor. But the general concept was not bad at all.

NOVA seems to be falling more in line with some of your views on what's good and less for others. Fair enough. I'm not changing my stance on what made DUST enjoyable for me, so there's no sense to try to beat it in.

And I LOVED obsessing over fittings and what suit could do what in niche contexts. It was brilliant! Even screwing around mid-battle praying someone doesn't shotgun me in the back before I can accept the change! That part of the game was a game in and of itself! Like... a shooter fidget spinner for my aging mind.


There. I've had my spell again. Nothing to see here. lol
;P


I guess that reads more aggressive than I really mean. Just tired of the back and forth. Let us be nostalgic. Let us mourn our losses in peace ;)
<3


p.s. I think I'm probably responding in the wrong thread anyway. haha. I just noticed the OP title. Ugh. still though, I'm in line with the last half page or so. kk. ima shupitup now. *curtsies*

kitten bacon taco (nom)

C C P
C C P Alliance
#39 Posted: 2017.05.25 16:07
DeathwindRising wrote:
DUST Fiend wrote:
I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/


best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits.

sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit.

oh you have a tank? change suit and counter.

oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits

Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there.

I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.


exactly

"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

OSG Planetary Operations
#40 Posted: 2017.05.25 16:39
CCP Rattati wrote:
DeathwindRising wrote:
DUST Fiend wrote:
I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/


best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits.

sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit.

oh you have a tank? change suit and counter.

oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits

Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there.

I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.


exactly


Do you only get to pick one suit per match? Can you switch classes when you die? Can the same class have multiple fits?
5 PagesPrevious page1234Next pageLast page
Forum Jump