General Discussions

 
^ Back to top

Topic is locked indefinitely.

 

Eve-Dust link: a Question of Agency

Jump to first DEV post
Author
WarRavens
#1 Posted: 2013.09.14 08:39
A corpmate collaborated with me on this:


http://serpentinelogic.wordpress.com/2013/09/14/the-eve-dust-link-a-question-of-agency/


tldr:

Quote:
What’s missing from the Eve-Dust connection is agency. There is no way to act independently to affect the other game.

Industrial removal service
#2 Posted: 2013.09.14 11:08
To start 'independently' has no place in dust, if 1 dusty was able to knock out my PoS by himself id be annoyed to hell and back


Other than that ... Basically wait a year or 2 for the game to develop first b4 we get into the connectivity. They got orbitals done early as more of a stunt for attention than practicality sofar
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
#3 Posted: 2013.09.14 12:47
Hexen Trickster wrote:
To start 'independently' has no place in dust, if 1 dusty was able to knock out my PoS by himself id be annoyed to hell and back


Other than that ... Basically wait a year or 2 for the game to develop first b4 we get into the connectivity. They got orbitals done early as more of a stunt for attention than practicality sofar

It will be cool to attack those things with group of mercs.

"I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Chaotik Serenity
#4 Posted: 2013.09.14 12:55
There is no EVE - DUST link yet because the EVE playerbase would go bananas the second CCP even tried.

they want nothing to do with dust in current state. they consider it to be a huge failure not to mention dissapointment.

they have seen the "element" that plays dust. and are not interested in the least.

they would consider it a huge slap in the face.

but do not take my word for it. find your way to the EVE forums and see how much love and excitement they have for DUST at the moment.


you will find very little. we say hey!!! EVE you need to take the dust bunnehs seriously!

the EVE players say " ha! i just lol'ed a bit. o7 Big smile
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 Posted: 2013.09.14 13:39
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.

CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit

Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
#6 Posted: 2013.09.14 13:59
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.


Could you provide any more details on the FW deploy?
EVE choosing district attacks?

Anything that can be exploited will be exploited.

Gallente Guide

Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
#7 Posted: 2013.09.14 14:04
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.


I hope you realize such a change does little to improve the actual gameplay experience. Changing how things happen for things that already happen is not really that impressive of a new feature. Nor does it raise the stakes or make the game more fun. That sort of stuff should be back end, You should be focusing on improving the core MMC skirmish mode so its actually up to a 2007 BF 2142 standard.
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 Posted: 2013.09.14 14:16
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.


I hope you realize such a change does little to improve the actual gameplay experience. Changing how things happen for things that already happen is not really that impressive of a new feature. Nor does it raise the stakes or make the game more fun. That sort of stuff should be back end, You should be focusing on improving the core MMC skirmish mode so its actually up to a 2007 BF 2142 standard.


We have people doing that too, I don't work on that bit of the game though.

CCP Nullarbor // Exotic Dancer // Team True Grit

Intrepidus XI
#9 Posted: 2013.09.14 14:36
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.


I hope you realize such a change does little to improve the actual gameplay experience. Changing how things happen for things that already happen is not really that impressive of a new feature. Nor does it raise the stakes or make the game more fun. That sort of stuff should be back end, You should be focusing on improving the core MMC skirmish mode so its actually up to a 2007 BF 2142 standard.


We have people doing that too, I don't work on that bit of the game though.

While the link between the games is needed, what about if you are playing and no EVE members of a corp are online? it has tobe balanced so there is stillkinds of orbital assiatance if that support is lacking
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
#10 Posted: 2013.09.14 14:44
They need to make orbitaling incredibly profitable for EVE players (at least to begin with). Make it competitive ISK/hour with L4 mission running and you will see a lot more interest in it. The fact that you're in Low Sec makes it risky, and if enough EVE pilots start farming ISK through DUST orbitals, you can bet your ass there will be pirates hunting them. All of this serves to create more fights in New Eden which is a good thing.
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
#11 Posted: 2013.09.14 14:55
That article was... incomplete. It has a good point, that I agree with, but it's more like half a skeleton in its extent as an article.

The aspects that need to come about to link Dust to Eve is that of environmental effects, not direct gameplay consequence. This concept of "agency", allowing players to become agents of change, is spot on. The elements of interaction however would be devastating if it involved unsolicited destruction of assets.

Now providing Eve players opportunities to manufacture goods for the market, change the battlefields landscape in match (ie. dropping installations), and deliver troops to battlefields on the other hand are viable. Just as Dust players being able to contract to Eve players, and arrange the delivery of much needed assets to their districts in PC would also be viable interactions that effect environment.

Environmental impact and economic changes seem to be where CCP is working, and some of those interactions appear to be simple, but are in fact complex to initiate well.
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
#12 Posted: 2013.09.14 15:00  |  Edited by: Vrain Matari
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.

It is definitely too early for independent agency, that's a goal we have to work towards.

The 'low hanging fruit' approach has a lot of merit. I'm feeling that one of the primary responsibilities of the E-D link is the education of new immigrants to New Eden. Understanding will lead directly to players becoming more invested in both games and the larger universe.

And this works both ways, it does not just apply to DUST players.

This may not lay directly in the province of True Grit, but it definitely lives close to the border.....so without further ado:

Information and low-hanging fruit.

  1. Are the manufacturing BPOs ready for action?. If they are, the NPC market pricing in DUST should start moving with EVE's economy. This would add so much immersion for so little effort it's crazy. And you'd get this great effect where mercs who were wondering why the hell the price of spawn uplinks were on the rise ended up reading one of Dr. EyjoG's Economic Dev blogs(bring them back!). What an amazing trip that would be for a new player - i can imagine sitting back in my chair after realizing just what New Eden really was and exclaiming 'holy kittenpoop' or something to that effect.

  2. And if the BPOs are not finalized that doesn't need to stop us - placeholder values for secret stuff will work just fine.

  3. Market graphs. Show the DUST players the activity in the DUST closed market via a market window. Give them a feel for what profit there is to be made(by EVE players atm, but that's a-gonna change ;)). Let them see what happens to proto gear sales when a major tournament takes place or when a new PC region opens up. Add the EVE market information later so the amount of info is not paralyzing.

  4. Starmap. Let pilots see where the action is on the ground. Let mercs see where the fights are in EVE. Both of these in 'realtime', and a map mode where we can follow the action. I imagine watching the map while battle-indicating sparks flared up and died away like interstellar fireflys, harbingers of death and profit. On a related note, i want to be able to see the starmap in DUST as it is displayed in EVE. I'm a big fan of what we have in DUST atm, it's very well done and a great tool that will only get better. But we need the romance of that magnificent starmap rendered in all it's glory - this drives the romantic imagination and leads again to player investment. This is the mode where we need to see those fireflies.


These are just off the top of my head, i'm sure peeps have lots of good ideas about how we can 'connect' DUST and EVE without allowing money or material to flow between them just yet, giving you devpeeps the time you need to get all your systems in place. The sooner we allow this information to flow the better, because it prepares the ground for integration by both educating players and increasing their investment in EVE + DUST = New Eden.

Edit Part Deux II the second

One of Serpentine's point jostled something loose in me noggin.

Mail. Tbh, this is an EVE-DUST-Unifex conversation that needs to happen.

Let's not talk about EVEGATE. Really. Because it's just not worth it.

CCP now has two properties that connect to New Eden, Valkyrie is coming next year and Unifex is looking at Mobile platforms.

There needs to be a single solution for New Eden messaging and it needs to run like kittening this

There are a ton of necessary features, but let's save them for another thread.

PSN: RationalSpark

Demon Ronin
#13 Posted: 2013.09.14 15:04  |  Edited by: Surt gods end
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.


I hope you realize such a change does little to improve the actual gameplay experience. Changing how things happen for things that already happen is not really that impressive of a new feature. Nor does it raise the stakes or make the game more fun. That sort of stuff should be back end, You should be focusing on improving the core MMC skirmish mode so its actually up to a 2007 BF 2142 standard.


We have people doing that too, I don't work on that bit of the game though.



Will dust mercs have more of a direct effect on eve players? And no I don't mean by ISK. I mean DIRECT. Or is that just unvisitable?
Aloren Foundations
#14 Posted: 2013.09.14 17:19
Jade Hasegawa wrote:
While the link between the games is needed, what about if you are playing and no EVE members of a corp are online? it has tobe balanced so there is stillkinds of orbital assiatance if that support is lacking




I see no reason why. If you can't muster up enough people to break through the opposing team's EVE support, then perhaps... you SHOULDN'T get orbital support. This applies to both militia and PC battles (but not pubmatches)
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
#15 Posted: 2013.09.14 17:44
Jade Hasegawa wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.


I hope you realize such a change does little to improve the actual gameplay experience. Changing how things happen for things that already happen is not really that impressive of a new feature. Nor does it raise the stakes or make the game more fun. That sort of stuff should be back end, You should be focusing on improving the core MMC skirmish mode so its actually up to a 2007 BF 2142 standard.


We have people doing that too, I don't work on that bit of the game though.

While the link between the games is needed, what about if you are playing and no EVE members of a corp are online? it has tobe balanced so there is stillkinds of orbital assiatance if that support is lacking


I'm not to sure about that. I would prefer an option to purchase OBs for ISK prior to a match as a form of insurance. I like that the only OB support in PC is EVE based; purchasing in FW and keeping WP thresholds for pubs is the way to go. I think the trick is to incentivize the EVE pilots to vie for supporting with OB....through contracts...like mercenaries...that fight for ISK. Just sayin.

"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero

Skype: jaysyn.larrisen

Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen

WarRavens
#16 Posted: 2013.09.16 00:10
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
I would prefer an option to purchase OBs for ISK prior to a match as a form of insurance. I like that the only OB support in PC is EVE based; purchasing in FW and keeping WP thresholds for pubs is the way to go.


What if there were other things you could call in as orbital support that weren't bombardments? What if you could call in a supply drop of nanohives?

(personally I'd like Eve players to send in spy drones, so wide-area active scanning is off the table :)
The Sound Of Freedom
#17 Posted: 2013.09.16 00:28
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
It's coming.

I heard a really good phrase from one of the CPM members the other day after our summit with the CSM. It was that the connection to EVE is like setting up dominoes in a line so we can knock them all down. Everything we have been doing so far and will continue to do is putting the pieces in place so that the whole vision works, skipping some of the steps will break the chain.

Speaking specifically to Serpentine's blog post, we are going to change both the FW deploy and the orbital mechanics to allow the other side to initiate that game play, exactly as suggested. We have more examples of design changes like that brewing too because we agree it is just more interesting.


I hope you realize such a change does little to improve the actual gameplay experience. Changing how things happen for things that already happen is not really that impressive of a new feature. Nor does it raise the stakes or make the game more fun. That sort of stuff should be back end, You should be focusing on improving the core MMC skirmish mode so its actually up to a 2007 BF 2142 standard.


this guy is silly. this isn't a console game, it's a part of a console game.

it's only when they get eve players involved that dust becomes 'alive'.

rip ccp. it was a good run.

www.forum.eternalcrusade.com

Forum Jump