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Statement from CPM0 - "State of affairs : Communication & Trust"

Author
Onslaught Inc
#41 Posted: 2013.08.12 03:58
ReGnYuM wrote:
I always assumed that 95% of CCP Shanghai did not speak english.

Language Barrier


Just to clear this up, none of the CCP staff we've ever engaged with have had any problems with English. The management of the Shanghai studio is almost completely made up of expats, and English is the required operational language spoken inside the company.

Good guess Regnummyummytummy - but unfortunately this goes deeper than anything hiring some translators could fix.
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
#42 Posted: 2013.08.12 04:05  |  Edited by: Noc Tempre
Whatever.
Don't Wanna Be
#43 Posted: 2013.08.12 04:41
Unfortunately I've become too cynical over my time of playing this game to think anything will change now, even with the CPM backing this movement. Nice thread though, very well written.
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
#44 Posted: 2013.08.12 04:53
Thank you for doing this, its heartening to see that at least we have the CPM on our side. Now, to see if CCP Shanghai will respond to this, before it's too late.
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
#45 Posted: 2013.08.12 04:58
If this thread doesn't get a blue tag soon, I'll lose all faith in humanity.

Never forget

More tiericide, less tieriphiles.

Sanguis Defense Syndicate
#46 Posted: 2013.08.12 05:01
I fukin' love you, man.


Munch

Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.

Nos Nothi
#47 Posted: 2013.08.12 05:09
Noc Tempre wrote:
Whatever.



So edgy

Stabby-stabber extraordinaire ▬ι══ﺤ

I stabbed Rattati once, you know.

Den of Swords
#48 Posted: 2013.08.12 05:15
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:
If this thread doesn't get a blue tag soon, I'll lose all faith in humanity.


Oh... the CPM got something better

Former CPM 0, CPM 1

Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior

Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
#49 Posted: 2013.08.12 05:20
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:
If this thread doesn't get a blue tag soon, I'll lose all faith in humanity.


Oh... the CPM got something better

It'd be funny to see CPM get hatemail ingame from CCP.

Never forget

More tiericide, less tieriphiles.

Sanguis Defense Syndicate
#50 Posted: 2013.08.12 05:51
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:
If this thread doesn't get a blue tag soon, I'll lose all faith in humanity.


Oh... the CPM got something better


Dude, don't leave us hanging.

Was it "better" as in a couple of hookers, a pound of coke and a weekend in Vegas to shut you up?

Or was it "better" as in "Holy crap - these people love this game and want to help make it better. We will use their input and communicate with them regularly"?


Munch

Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.

Professor Nova's Super Ethical Auction House
#51 Posted: 2013.08.12 05:51  |  Edited by: Nova Knife
So, some good(ish) news to report, following up to this.

Prior to even posting this, we poked CCP PR. We wanted them to know we were going to post something that was going to end up being pretty grim, and why we were posting it. Following this courtesy call, emails were sent out and we were contacted by several of the higher-ups, asking what was up to hear it for themselves. We were told this stuff was being added to the agenda of meetings with the higher-ups this week, and that they'd get back to us in a meeting shortly after.

This was pretty much expected, but we're not so much posting this to turn heads at CCP or to make it seem like we're trying to bully them into a response, so much as to acknowledge to the public "This is how things are right now". Our hope is that in the following week(s), we can hopefully have something much more positive to report. We want to keep the players in the loop as much as possible with what we're doing and how it's going.

Now, on to the positive stuff!

After posting this, I had a nice, lengthy talk with CCP Cmdr Wang. We talked about this statement, why we were making it, what our goals were with it, and the conversation progressed into something massively productive, beyond anything I could have hoped. He explained clearly and concisely CCP's internal design process and terminology and planning structures. We talked about the devblog process and how they determine what information is getting out and what precisely the 'hoops' are in order for a blog to land in the communities' lap. We talked about dev & blue posts, and any rules regarding those that apply to information getting out.

We also discussed the hotfix process & how the weekly reports from the community team play into those, and how those fixes are prioritized. We expanded our conversation into marketing, and while I can't get too much into what we talked about here, it was good info and super helpful.

In summary :

CCP Cmdr Wang gave us a MASSIVE amount of insight into many of CCP's processes that we have grievances with, and explained the proper terms to use to best ensure we 'click' with the devs and can communicate with them as efficiently as possible using language and methods that would best allow us to make the impact we're attempting to do. Now, in the meeting later this week with the higher-ups, we'll be completely armed to take best advantage of this opportunity and do the most good.
OSG Planetary Operations
#52 Posted: 2013.08.12 05:55
Couldn't CCP go an extra step (in the future) and sync new DUST content to SiSi? That way community members who have access to the Singularity server can help test new DUST content before it's released to Tranquility.

That's probably one of the better ways to conduct testing rather than throwing it to the wolves and hoping for the best.
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
#53 Posted: 2013.08.12 06:01
Nova Knife wrote:
So, some good(ish) news to report, following up to this.

Prior to even posting this, we poked CCP PR. We wanted them to know we were going to post something that was going to end up being pretty grim, and why we were posting it. Following this courtesy call, emails were sent out and we were contacted by several of the higher-ups, asking what was up to hear it for themselves. We were told this stuff was being added to the agenda of meetings with the higher-ups this week, and that they'd get back to us in a meeting shortly after.

This was pretty much expected, but we're not so much posting this to turn heads at CCP or to make it seem like we're trying to bully them into a response, so much as to acknowledge to the public "This is how things are right now". Our hope is that in the following week(s), we can hopefully have something much more positive to report. We want to keep the players in the loop as much as possible with what we're doing and how it's going.

Now, on to the positive stuff!

After posting this, I had a nice, lengthy talk with CCP Cmdr Wang. We talked about this statement, why we were making it, what our goals were with it, and the conversation progressed into something massively productive, beyond anything I could have hoped. He explained clearly and concisely CCP's internal design process and terminology and planning structures. We talked about the devblog process and how they determine what information is getting out and what precisely the 'hoops' are in order for a blog to land in the communities' lap. We talked about dev & blue posts, and any rules regarding those that apply to information getting out.

We also discussed the hotfix process & how the weekly reports from the community team play into those, and how those fixes are prioritized. We expanded our conversation into marketing, and while I can't get too much into what we talked about here, it was good info and super helpful.

In summary :

CCP Cmdr Wang gave us a MASSIVE amount of insight into many of CCP's processes that we have grievances with, and explained the proper terms to use to best ensure we 'click' with the devs and can communicate with them as efficiently as possible using language and methods that would best allow us to make the impact we're attempting to do. Now, in the meeting later this week with the higher-ups, we'll be completely armed to take best advantage of this opportunity and do the most good.

Until you guys actually share what the exact details are the community is in the same boat while the CPM takes a step forward. Unless this info is being publicized - nothing is changing.
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
#54 Posted: 2013.08.12 06:08
Naedeus wrote:
Couldn't CCP go an extra step (in the future) and sync new DUST content to SiSi? That way community members who have access to the Singularity server can help test new DUST content before it's released to Tranquility.


Sisi doesn't have the dust engine, so you can't even see any stats, except for stuff that Eve can see, such as price.
Den of Swords
#55 Posted: 2013.08.12 06:11
Naedeus wrote:
Couldn't CCP go an extra step (in the future) and sync new DUST content to SiSi? That way community members who have access to the Singularity server can help test new DUST content before it's released to Tranquility.

That's probably one of the better ways to conduct testing rather than throwing it to the wolves and hoping for the best.


Problem with test server and our current monthly patch cycles is that test builds would also be just as long delayed.

Former CPM 0, CPM 1

Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior

Professor Nova's Super Ethical Auction House
#56 Posted: 2013.08.12 06:18
SoTah Pawp wrote:

Until you guys actually share what the exact details are the community is in the same boat while the CPM takes a step forward. Unless this info is being publicized - nothing is changing.


Until we've used this new information to prepare a solid game plan around the resolution of these issues and brought it forward, there's not much we can share. Like said in the above post : We intend to keep players in the loop as much as possible, but we still need to operate within the NDA.

Even if we can't share the specifics of these processes (Most of which we'll be trying to change to better involve the community as a whole anyways, which we'll push to have the revised ones put out) I can assure you that what Cmdr Wang has given us ensures that we're much, much better equipped to drive positive change, because knowing is half the battle!

Seriously. One of the best, most productive conversations we've had from CCP to date.

Villore Sec Ops
#57 Posted: 2013.08.12 06:26
Nova Knife wrote:
Vrain Matari wrote:


The fact that the CPM has released a statement like this indicates to me that despite recent restructuring and personnel changes, an unhealthy culture abides. In Reyk or in Shanghai I do not know.

But CCP, you have to find the source of that culture and find a way to change it into something a whole lot more efficacious and a whole lot wiser than what we have now. It's a difficult situation and a big ask, but if DUST is to become the catalyst for bringing New Eden to life, it needs to be done. And swiftly, methinks.


There is a pretty apparent culture difference.

However, I don't think this is the real source of the problem, and the absolute worst thing CCP could do is turn this into a witchhunt. It's not just one person or group of people causing this, the communication gap is a roadblock that exists in the process itself, that needs to be removed at all costs. This is not about placing blame or trying to find fault in any person or team. That doesn't matter. The last thing we want CCP to take from something like this is that there is anyone in the company causing this, who would just become a scapegoat, get fired, and have CCP think they 'solved' the problem.

Now more than ever, CCP needs all of their employees to be at their best. They need to work together with each other and with the community, and any assumption that anyone needs to be blamed or is at fault for this will just take away from any cohesion they might otherwise form as a result of this effort.

TL:DR - This is not a people problem. This is a "Operating Procedure" problem.






Having lived in China for many years I think there is likely a great divide between how someone raised in that culture expects development to progress compared to someone from the west who has experienced the benefits of the well honed cooperation between community and devs on the EVE forums. That could be a factor. I think them being overworked with not enough manpower is probably a factor too, but I'm just guessing. The culture in CCP Shanghai needs to be transformed so that they can see the benefit of cooperating with players--the evidence from CCP Reykjavik is ample! They also need the people and processes to enable a healthy exchange.

They need leadership. It seems they've been left on their own in a "game sweatshop" over in Shanghai just churning out this game as best they could with what they had and trying to get it out by deadline, then having to face the consequences of a highly flawed development process. The workers in Shanghai and Iceland aren't to blame. They're all just trying to do their best at their given task. The ones to blame are the leadership at CCP who failed to transmit the EVE dev culture to the DUST team, and who have failed to take advantage of a community in which many players are already well versed in that culture of feedback from their time in EVE.

The redheaded guy with the beard, CEO guy...he was cute on stage at Fanfest and I thought he was the best but he screwed the pooch and left CCP Shanghai out on a limb. The leadership at CCP at all levels needs to get involved and, with hyperfocus, right the ship. They're having to change, fix, and add so much to the game and will continue to for a while, much more than any game I've ever heard of that has been "released". The player base that is still here is likely comprised mostly of people who genuinely enjoy DUST and want to be there when it gets to that next level, but no one could be remotely content with the state of the game. CCP you still have a chance for this game to thrive, but if you want it to stay alive during this difficult period, you need to keep hold of as many current players as possible. You must understand that a great many of us are on the edge of hope. You cannot reasonably expect us to assume a bright future for the game and just stay invested without a care. We are tired of hoping and waiting and being disappointed. We need you to open up to us and welcome us as part of the crazy experiment that we're all doing here. We need to know what is going on and we want to provide useful feedback based on our extensive experience playing this game. Please take this bull by the horn. Don't let this situation spin out of control any more. Address your crisis of leadership head on. Initiate a new culture of transparency and cooperation in the development of DUST. Utilize us to the full extent, in the game and on the forums. Engage us in the process.

If DUST was a finished product ready to be explored and enjoyed that would be a different story. Our job would be more to just play the game, develop the meta, and provide some feedback. That is nowhere near the case though. DUST is a WIP and we are all playing on the test server. Embrace this reality! Engage the player base in the process of development as much as you can, on the forums and in the game itself, and players will respond enthusiastically! You can't ask us to behave like or accept the role of players of a fleshed out game. We're participants in the development of a WIP that still has the potential to be everything that CCP and players dream it can be. In order to fulfill that potential, the two halves of the whole--devs and players--need to work together and communicate as equal contributors to the process. We have to band together at this pivotal time so that we can see this through!

I win

shadows of 514
#58 Posted: 2013.08.12 07:17
Nicely put. But unless dust markedly improves I can't see this game ever getting out of the limping along stage. What a wast of potential

I am among the 1st of my kind, and i will never forget. no empire lasts forever and i have all the time in the world.

Prophets of the Velocirapture
#59 Posted: 2013.08.12 07:25
Doomsaying from Nova Knife? Whhaaaaaaat? No way....

[Ironically generic forum signature here]

fatal absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
#60 Posted: 2013.08.12 07:47
The clock is ticking. Actions speak louder than words.

+1 to the cpm for elucidating this issue again.

I'm irrelevant, feel free to ignore me. :)

No matter what. FAmily

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